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I don't live in Austin, but I am close and have been there many times.
IMO, Austin is the most racially segregated city in the USA, with pops of 100,000 +. Most of the "liberals" act like they do because they think it is cool. There are still a lot of hippies running around carrying their guitars on their backs. Lots of panhandlers and freeloaders. It is very ego-centric; there is no doubt that Austin is the center of the known universe, and maybe the unknown universe as well.
That all said, there is plenty of suburbia where the considerable natural beauty of the area has been bulldozed for tract housing.
If you live in an older section, near downtown, you will probably be more content.
I was simply pointing out that the OP had some steretypes about Texans and that it was OK for her to have these stereotypes considering the Rick Perry Good will tour that has been going on in the news. What more could we expect of her?
The same thing we expect of ourselves, and that you expect of us too: that we don't immediately assume that, just because someone is from the Bay area, that they're a hippy-dippy liberal twit. Because it would be wrong to do so. They don't have to prove that they aren't; and it's quite possible that they are. But the default position I take is 'until you demonstrate otherwise, I'll assume you aren't.'
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What I saw here was an OP with a rather innocuous question get dog piled by the "texas friendly" crowd, and so I stood up for her. That's just what I do.
Fair enough, but the manner in which you did so has made the thread about you and not about her, rendering the entire last page (and probably the next page) totally irrelevant to the topic. The only outcome you have secured is the self-satisfaction of having extended the proverbial middle finger to a bunch of people on the Internet that adds rather than takes away from the polarization that these threads sometimes cause.
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I don't expect to CONVINCE anyone to come to my way of thinking.
Why not? I'd rather have one convert than a hundred back-slaps and high-fives. I'm not here to earn rep. I'm here to try and make sense of what the place is like and to help others do the same.
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But frankly, for you to tell me that I am "obnoxious" and "make eepstein look like he is on the tourist board" and then tell me in your next post that I am "combative"?
I am wading in with you this once because I do agree with you on so many things and I think the way you present your position is doing it more harm than good. I'm not the guy on the other side; you'll notice I wasn't part of the dogpile (even if I do understand it). There isn't a war in Austin between people who love Rick Perry and people who don't. There are some places, and especially some times, that call for an us vs. them attitude and for harsh words. Just doesn't seem to me like Austin is one of those places.
I am tremendously saddened to imagine that you would think, in Austin in 2012, that what one ridiculous gay celebrity does would impact how you are perceived. No doubt that there are people out there who would make that leap, that, well, all ya'll gay folks are the same, but it seems to me it's that kind of generalization that so upsets people in this thread. You should be proud of who you are - and anyone who demeans that just because you have one biological attribute in common with a crazy person (as do millions of other people), well, I'd hope we have an even bigger texas-friendly dogpile for them.
Perry's poor performance as a presidential candidate undoubtedly generated poor publicity for Texas. .
Exactly! I was saying "Don't jump all over the OP because the only example she has of Texas is Rick Perry. How about instead, you be a counter-point to him, and actually be Texas friendly"
As I have said many times now....It's REASONABLE for people to have a stereotype of Texas because of our governor. I feel that we are responsible for dispelling that stereotype.
Everyone else saw the OP as some uppity Californian that was criticizing them. I saw her as someone who legitimately was concerned about a major life decision and was just trying to do her due dilligence.
I have already quoted the posts that were rude and attacking her. Unless you think the OP did something to be called "hippy-dippy" or "exactly the type of liberal I hate".
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Originally Posted by hoffdano
The OP said "Oh dear I am already having issues" on the trivial topic of Hispanic vs. Latino. I find that a telling statement about the OP's outlook on places not California. .
I find it a telling statement of a young girl taking a step back, putting her fingers to her lips and saying "Oh my, right off the bat and I am out of the loop because I thought we coudln't say Hispanic anymore". We have all been the new person in the group. We have all "stepped in it" by saying something we didn't realize was offensive. MAYBE the OP was not attacking precious, sancrosant Austin and was instead reflecting on HER behavior and what adjustments she would have to make to fit in here in Austin? Did that ever occur to you? Did that ever occur to anyone before she was told to stay in California you hippy-dippy liberal that I hate?
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Originally Posted by hoffdano
I think the majority of the posts on this thread have been reasonable and addressed the OP's questions. .
I disagree, and I quoted the posts I thought were not reasonable and did not address the OPs issue. Is there a particular post I quoted that you did find to be reasonable? That I shouldn't have included on my list? JenniBC already told me not to lump her in and explained her statement, so you know I am willing to listen. Some did offer the OP legitimate advice. Some people were just hateful bullies. I included those posts, so please, defend them or tell me where I am wrong. I am always amiable to listen to you.
And I would have no problem with this argument if the OP had come to this board and expected everyone in austin to think like her.
The OP gave a laundry list of what she was looking for. All her expectations were reasonable. She then gets jumped all over, and this was BEFORE the "mexican" comment.
You are wrong, all the posts were geared towards being informative before she made the hispanic comment at the end of page two. Hoffdano started the dogpile on page three in direct reference to the hispanic comment.
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Originally Posted by JayBrown80
She made one snafu by saying "Oh, where I come from, and in MY experience, calling latinos 'mexicans' is a no no". What was so wrong with that? Why can't she tell us what SHE has experienced in life? She DID NOT order anyone to stop using the word "mexican". That just did not happen. She said where she comes from people don't like that.
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That is not what she said, what she said was this.
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Originally Posted by RaphRod
Oh dear, I am already having issues. Latin people prefer to be called Latin; Hispanic is actually only used by government (some) entities anymore. Hispanic, Mexican, you name it - all out the door. Acceptable is Latin, Latina, Latinos. I grew up in CA, and although white, I respect whatever it is they would like to group themselves as. If I said Hispanic in the Bay Area, I'd get a dirty look and someone would correct me.
I dont feel that I am reading too much into what she wrote when I interpret her meaning as:
1) Oh dear Im already having issues <implication> Im having issues with austin already because of the use of the word hispanic
2) Latin people preferred to be called latin, <implication> since people in austin refer to them as hispanics, they are < backwards?> because only people who are <backwards?> would not call people by their preferred moniker.
3) Acceptable is Latin, Latina and Latinos <implication> Let me tell you what is acceptable
4) I grew up in california and therefore respect what people want to be called, <implication> since people in austin use the word hispanic, likely they do not respect what people want to be called
5) for example, in the bay area, you would be disliked if you used the word hispanic <implication> you are so backwards compared to the progressive bay area.
What is really interesting jaybrown is that you have a particular bias so the implications that you see in the message are completely different than what others are seeing. That isnt right or wrong, but is how wars start.
The same thing we expect of ourselves, and that you expect of us too: that we don't immediately assume that, just because someone is from the Bay area, that they're a hippy-dippy liberal twit. Because it would be wrong to do so. They don't have to prove that they aren't; and it's quite possible that they are. But the default position I take is 'until you demonstrate otherwise, I'll assume you aren't.'.
In fantasy land, that would be nice. In reality, people that are making a life decison as huge as moving across the country, are naturally going to feel apprehensive and can get bent out of shape over the littlest things. If I was going to move to, let's say Salt Lake City, it would be natural for me to be apprehensive because Salt Lake City is heavily influenced by Mormon culture, and Mormons are fanatically anti-gay. This is NATURAL and no reason to jump all over the OP.
A person that has grown up in San Fransisco is going to have a skewed sense of politics because San Fran is so far to the left. It would be natural to be worried about culture shock moving to the red state of Texas and it would be WISE to seek out the natives there and ask what Austin is really like. The OP was doing just that. She was being wise and then the mean girls attacked her.
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Originally Posted by Aquitaine
Fair enough, but the manner in which you did so has made the thread about you and not about her, rendering the entire last page (and probably the next page) totally irrelevant to the topic.
In a previous thread we had a conversation about going off-topic in threads and I let you know my opinion then. Don't complain about me taking a thread off topic if you are then going to CONTRIBUTE to the thread going off topic by sparring with me. If I am off topic, report me to the moderator, and don't respond.
By responding, you are only contributing to the thread going off topic. Once again, you got into the mud with me to tell me to get out of the mud.
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Originally Posted by Aquitaine
I am tremendously saddened to imagine that you would think, in Austin in 2012, that what one ridiculous gay celebrity does would impact how you are perceived. No doubt that there are people out there who would make that leap, that, well, all ya'll gay folks are the same, but it seems to me it's that kind of generalization that so upsets people in this thread. You should be proud of who you are - and anyone who demeans that just because you have one biological attribute in common with a crazy person (as do millions of other people), well, I'd hope we have an even bigger texas-friendly dogpile for them.
This is again a break from reality that I don't understand from you. I am not making this my major cause in life. I will not be on the steps of the capitol tomorrow saying "impeach perry".
What I am saying is that as a Texan, Rick Perry embrasses me. Just like George Bush embarassed the Dixie Chicks. As a gay man, Perez Hilton embarasses me. Do you think that Black people aren't embarassed on some level when they turn on the news and see another black person acting like a fool on camera? Because my black friends have said that to me. Do you think that my muslim friends aren't embarassed when they turn on the news and hear what people like Amadenjihad have to say? Of course they are! They KNOW that they are not muslims like he is, but then again, they feel like "oh man, why do you have to make us look bad". I have a friend who has HIV, a diagnosis that millions of people have, and he is scared to tell anyone, because he knows that the stigma associated with his condition can ruin his life.
Let's not be silly aquitaine and pretend that stigmas aren't out there and that they aren't embarassing.
I feel obligated as a Texan and a Gay man to dispel these stereotypes that people associate with me because of these 2 doofuses. How can you possibly believe that people don't lump people in groups when the OP did it herself in this thread? How can you REALLY believe that there aren't people out there that associate all gay people as vapid girly men because of Perez Hilton. You are deluding yourself now.
Not that it is a major issue for me, but it is something I think about from time to time. When I see Perez Hilton in the news i am like "oh god....that set back the gay movement a few months".
Extremists? That is a step down from you calling me a terrorist THL...so I guess you are making progress on being an "extremist" yourself.
Oh that's right...You STILL havent' been "man enough" to admit that you called 3 people on this forum terrorists when we disagreed with you. What was that you saying about "...not <being> able to recognize that the're doing it"?
Because I didn't. I also, in that discussion, didn't mention people but described an attitude that has expression all a long a continuum but is an expression of the same kind of impulse and need to control others. Even the list moderator described it as addressing the issue, not the people. Sorry if it cut so close to home for you that you can't let it go.
Also interesting that this does not address the point of the comment but instead diverges into an attack on me over something unrelated to this thread. Seems to me that says a whole lot right there.
You are wrong, all the posts were geared towards being informative before she made the hispanic comment at the end of page two. Hoffdano started the dogpile on page three in direct reference to the hispanic comment.
That is not what she said, what she said was this.
I dont feel that I am reading too much into what she wrote when I interpret her meaning as:
1) Oh dear Im already having issues <implication> Im having issues with austin already because of the use of the word hispanic
2) Latin people preferred to be called latin, <implication> since people in austin refer to them as hispanics, they are < backwards?> because only people who are <backwards?> would not call people by their preferred moniker.
3) Acceptable is Latin, Latina and Latinos <implication> Let me tell you what is acceptable
4) I grew up in california and therefore respect what people want to be called, <implication> since people in austin use the word hispanic, likely they do not respect what people want to be called
5) for example, in the bay area, you would be disliked if you used the word hispanic <implication> you are so backwards compared to the progressive bay area.
What is really interesting jaybrown is that you have a particular bias so the implications that you see in the message are completely different than what others are seeing. That isnt right or wrong, but is how wars start.
So you interpret her that way, and that is fine. It didn't call for her to be called "the exact type of liberal I hate". I think that her statement could be taken either way, as a condemnation, or as a simple self reflection....but because she is from California than OBVIOUSLY she is judging us...
Yes you did. And until you admit you did it, then I am not going to drop the subject. And I am not the only one that thinks you did it too, because oldtoilestmakesgoodflwrpots mentioned it just 5 days ago in a thread as well. She was the other one you were accusing of having "the same attitudes as the people who flew planes into the world trade center".
As I explained to you last time THL, 5 people in that thread immediately called you out on your bullcrap. And you don't have the courage to admit you were wrong and take it back. Not that I care if you take it back, or even admit you are wrong. You don't have too if you don't want too. But when you try to re-write history and well....LIE...then I am going to challenge your lie with the truth.
Yes you did. And until you admit you did it, then I am not going to drop the subject.
It seems to me that all of your posts amount to this: you are right, everyone else is wrong, and you are going to keep on making lengthy posts about how wrong they are until they admit that you're right.
I've never seen that actually happen to anyone as full of vitriol as you appear to be.
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Do you think that Black people aren't embarassed on some level when they turn on the news and see another black person acting like a fool on camera?
Yes, I do. I don't immediately assume that everyone makes sweeping generalizations based on the behavior of one person or ten people with whom their only commonality is a surface trait over which they have no control. The fact that some people demonstrably do so does not alter my position. I would make an exception for a very small minority group with whom "most people" might be very unfamiliar on the basis that their only exposure to that group is the one person in question, but "black people" or "gay people" are hardly alien minorities. I simply don't see every ridiculous act or statement somebody makes in public as somehow representative of millions of people. I would no doubt become very defensive and see bogeymen everywhere if I did. Hmm....
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A person that has grown up in San Fransisco is going to have a skewed sense of politics because San Fran is so far to the left. It would be natural to be worried about culture shock moving to the red state of Texas and it would be WISE to seek out the natives there and ask what Austin is really like. The OP was doing just that. She was being wise and then the mean girls attacked her.
You are quite right about her original question. I don't see anybody taking issue with that. Her subsequent statements are another matter; I respect that you did not interpret them the same way everyone else seems to have, but you reject entirely that anyone could possibly have a different view than you do and condemn them because they think at all differently than you do. You have pretensions to rational discourse but I think this is what you actually want: to be in the middle of a fight just for the fight's sake. That's fine, but your total contribution is just hyperbole and spite. Why that would bring you satisfaction I cannot imagine.
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Don't complain about me taking a thread off topic if you are then going to CONTRIBUTE to the thread going off topic by
I apologize - I am not complaining about your hijacking this thread in the manner that you hijacked the other one. I am merely pointing out that if your intention was to reassure the OP, you have instead made this thread into a discussion and referendum about yourself, and given your approach to that discussion, I can only conclude that that is your only actual interest ... more people talking to and about you. I have learned my lesson and will stop feeding the trolls from now on.
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