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Old 01-15-2013, 07:47 AM
 
1,157 posts, read 2,643,777 times
Reputation: 483

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Let me add though, we hated our lot size and configuration this was a major factor in our decision to leave BC. There has to be a better way.
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Old 01-15-2013, 09:37 AM
 
25 posts, read 98,568 times
Reputation: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by IC_deLight View Post
One poster states: "I see a total loss of property values when backing up to a dealer."

The deed restrictions that burdened the residential property limited the purchaser's ability to do much with "their" property. The existence of a dealership does not subtract or in any way impose more restrictions on the residential property. The homeowner can still live in the home and do everything they were doing before. The homeowner's claim of loss of value is not supported by anything other than imagination. The comparisons between different types of retail businesses is silly. Some prospective purchasers might buy knowing what particular type of business was going in and now they would know. Some prospective purchasers might like one type of business over another. No doubt this poster would have found problems with virtually any business going up. Would the complainers also be complaining if it was another residential property (thereby providing a buffer for that poster - just moving the boundary to someone else)? Would they be complaining if it was an apartment complex (residential), a mobile home park (residential), or other residential development?
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How do you know that the existence of a dealership will not subtract or in any way impose more restrictions on the residential property? If the expected constant noise keeps a resident from sleeping, if the smell of gas fumes keeps the family from the backyard, and if stadium-strength lights shining down on the bedroom windows every night does not infringe on the homeowner’s right of quiet enjoyment and use of the home, then what does?

Remember that, per the plan, this facility will be only 80 feet from a house. It doesn't take a wild imagination to think that it will impact the livability and therefore the value of the houses adjoining the property.
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Old 01-16-2013, 02:01 PM
 
7,996 posts, read 10,354,830 times
Reputation: 15006
Quote:
Originally Posted by txlonghorn View Post
How do you know that the existence of a dealership will not subtract or in any way impose more restrictions on the residential property? If the expected constant noise keeps a resident from sleeping, if the smell of gas fumes keeps the family from the backyard, and if stadium-strength lights shining down on the bedroom windows every night does not infringe on the homeowner’s right of quiet enjoyment and use of the home, then what does?

Remember that, per the plan, this facility will be only 80 feet from a house. It doesn't take a wild imagination to think that it will impact the livability and therefore the value of the houses adjoining the property.
Even before the Coverts ever bought that land, potential buyers knew that eventually something would be built there. It could have been a Wal-Mart, car dealership, whatever. The unknown, and the fact that it could have potentially been something worse, had already subtracted from the value.

As far as imposing more restrictions, how will the car dealership impose restrictions on a neighboring home? Their yard isn't going to get any smaller because of it.
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Old 01-16-2013, 03:22 PM
 
9 posts, read 11,623 times
Reputation: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Komeht View Post
Of course zoning that denies any reasonable use of a property or undue hardship in development would constituted a taking, I never stated or implied otherwise.

In any event, was FW wants to do in no way resembles a comprehensive municipal plan to direct the orderly growth of a city - what they are trying for in a an arbitrary post-hoc ad-hoc one-time restriction on a particular business - clearly not remotely constitutional.

I think it should be pointed out - communities such as FW are not without remedy. It is within their power to protect themselves by purchasing the land and deed restricting it themselves. That particular tract of land was for sale - with giant billboard on 71 stating it was for sale, not very long ago. The residents could have purchased the land for themselves and decided if and how it could be developed. The fact that FW did not value the land that highly and not willing to pay to protect itself should speak volumes about what is being attempted here.
I would like to know what giant billboard you are talking about! The land that was purchased by Covert was a foreclosure and there was no billboard or for sale sign put on this property. There were and are "for sale" signs on each side of this property, but never on this property directly. There are no giant billboards on any of the land on 71 so have no idea what you are talking about. For you to say this land had a giant billboard and the residents could have purchased this land, makes me highly suspicious what your true motives are for all your posts on this thread. Maybe it is you who is here under false pretenses as you have implied about myself and other posters.
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Old 01-16-2013, 04:25 PM
 
3,427 posts, read 4,424,827 times
Reputation: 3633
Quote:
Originally Posted by txlonghorn View Post
How do you know that the existence of a dealership will not subtract or in any way impose more restrictions on the residential property? If the expected constant noise keeps a resident from sleeping, if the smell of gas fumes keeps the family from the backyard, and if stadium-strength lights shining down on the bedroom windows every night does not infringe on the homeowner’s right of quiet enjoyment and use of the home, then what does?

Remember that, per the plan, this facility will be only 80 feet from a house. It doesn't take a wild imagination to think that it will impact the livability and therefore the value of the houses adjoining the property.
What on earth are you talking about?
You start off suggesting that the Covert dealership could possibly impose more restrictions on the residential property and then follow on with a complete nonsequitor.

Whoever owns the car dealership real estate has zero ability to impose more restrictions property within the FW subdivision.

As far as "affecting the value of the houses adjoining the property" - such a proposition is pure speculation on your part. Sounds more like buyer's remorse. Got news for you - you never had any entitlement to a "preservation of value" to begin with. HOA corporations are control and liability shifting devices created for the benefit of the developer and local government, not you. You bought subject to restrictive covenants that did not burden the Covert property. You shouldn't be surprised that property owners adjacent FW are interested in self-imposition of the restrictive covenants burdening the FW property. The unrestricted property is worth more economically and from a use and enjoyment standpoint as well. You have unreasonable expectations as to others' use of their property.

You seem to be complaining that the car dealership might constitute a nuisance. Other retail shopping outlets or multi-family housing are not likely to result in "less" of any of the things you have complained about. No doubt owners of property adjacent FW anticipated FW would be a nuisance to them, yet here FW is.

You complain about a gas tank used for the dealership itself yet you have no problem with parking 2-3 smaller gas tanks in your garage every night as do all your neighbors in a subdivision of hundreds of small lots. You aren't concerned with the fuel or the smell of hundreds of these other tanks all around you. Given that you park these tanks in your household garages every evening, safety obviously isn't a concern either. What about the sounds and smells of lawn mowers, weed eaters, and air blowers as hundreds of lots are mowed every week in your subdivision?

There is probably nothing that could be developed on the car dealership property without attracting unwarranted whining from non-owners of the car dealership property. Whoever bought the lot that is in your example (they way it's presented, it sounds like at most one homeowner is affected) did so with the knowledge of the boundaries of the subdivision. Shouldn't have been any surprise at all that the owner of the adjacent property is not duty bound to respect the whims of FW residents as to the use and enjoyment of the adjacent property.

Many prospective purchasers might feel better about a car dealership going in as opposed to retail outlet stores, fast food restaurants, gas stations, multi-family housing, a power substation, parking garage, 5 story office buildings, a fire department substation, etc. Given the more pronounced aversion to HOA-burdened property for lots of folks, there are bigger turnoffs to buying in your subdivision than a neighboring car dealership.
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Old 01-16-2013, 04:39 PM
 
3,836 posts, read 5,742,307 times
Reputation: 2556
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaveOurHillCountry View Post
I would like to know what giant billboard you are talking about! The land that was purchased by Covert was a foreclosure and there was no billboard or for sale sign put on this property. There were and are "for sale" signs on each side of this property, but never on this property directly. There are no giant billboards on any of the land on 71 so have no idea what you are talking about. For you to say this land had a giant billboard and the residents could have purchased this land, makes me highly suspicious what your true motives are for all your posts on this thread. Maybe it is you who is here under false pretenses as you have implied about myself and other posters.
Interesting take. I know you won't believe me - so verify it for yourself - 23 acres and 1000 feet of frontage with (in all caps) NO ZONING was for sale after Falconhead West was developed. You can still see the billboards quite clearly on Google Maps - use street view.

As for foreclosure postings - those are handled through the county and available publicly.
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Old 01-16-2013, 06:31 PM
 
Location: Holly Neighborhood, Austin, Texas
3,982 posts, read 6,707,958 times
Reputation: 2882
Keep in mind that if there had been a nature preserve or some other restricted use adjacent to FW the land there would have had greater value and the homes would have cost more. Hey don't feel so bad as I payed more for my house because the Holly power plant had been retired a few years before I bought. If I bought 6 years prior I would have gotten a 40% discount. In business and real estate the name of the game is TANSTAFL (there ain't no such thing as a free lunch), but also that timing plays a big part in the value equation.
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Old 01-18-2013, 04:59 PM
 
1 posts, read 2,059 times
Reputation: 10
Book Review: Conscious Capitalism - WSJ.com

I have not read the book Conscious Capitalism: Liberating the Heroic Spirit of Business, by John Mackey and Raj Sisodia, but the Wall Street Journal book review (Chicken Soup for a Davos Soul - Successful companies serve a purpose beyond making money) was a good read. It was particularly relevant, both because of the current #NoCovertinBeeCave situation and because one of the co-authors of the book, Mackey, is the co-CEO of Austin-based Whole Foods.

I wonder if Mackey has ever met the Coverts - - and what he would say if he knew about the Coverts' ridiculous idea of putting a car dealership LITERALLY in the backyard of a residential neighborhood. It certainly would be interesting if he used the Coverts as an example of what NOT to do and how NOT to act, if / when he goes on a book tour locally or nationally in the press, the media, etc.

A relevant excerpt from the article:
What does ("conscious capitalism") mean? Well, first, the authors say, it means having a clear purpose, beyond just making money....Second, conscious businesses consider the needs of all their stakeholders - which is to say, everyone touched by the business: employees, suppliers, customers and affected communities, as well as investors...Finally, conscious businesses have conscious leaders, who are "primarily motivated by service to the purpose of the business and its stakeholders, and not by the pursuit of power and personal enrichment."

It is clear that the leadership at Covert Auto Group is "Un" Conscious, using Mackey & Sisodia's definition. One has to wonder if the Coverts aren't brain-dead and tone-deaf, as well.
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