01-15-2013, 07:47 AM
1,157 posts, read
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Let me add though, we hated our lot size and configuration this was a major factor in our decision to leave BC. There has to be a better way.
01-15-2013, 09:37 AM
25 posts, read
98,568 times
Reputation: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IC_deLight
One poster states: "I see a total loss of property values when backing up to a dealer. "
The deed restrictions that burdened the residential property limited the purchaser's ability to do much with "their" property. The existence of a dealership does not subtract or in any way impose more restrictions on the residential property. The homeowner can still live in the home and do everything they were doing before. The homeowner's claim of loss of value is not supported by anything other than imagination. The comparisons between different types of retail businesses is silly. Some prospective purchasers might buy knowing what particular type of business was going in and now they would know. Some prospective purchasers might like one type of business over another. No doubt this poster would have found problems with virtually any business going up. Would the complainers also be complaining if it was another residential property (thereby providing a buffer for that poster - just moving the boundary to someone else)? Would they be complaining if it was an apartment complex (residential), a mobile home park (residential), or other residential development?
.
How do you know that the existence of a dealership will not subtract or in any way impose more restrictions on the residential property? If the expected constant noise keeps a resident from sleeping, if the smell of gas fumes keeps the family from the backyard, and if stadium-strength lights shining down on the bedroom windows every night does not infringe on the homeowner’s right of quiet enjoyment and use of the home, then what does?
Remember that, per the plan, this facility will be only 80 feet from a house. It doesn't take a wild imagination to think that it will impact the livability and therefore the value of the houses adjoining the property.
01-16-2013, 02:01 PM
7,996 posts, read
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
txlonghorn
How do you know that the existence of a dealership will not subtract or in any way impose more restrictions on the residential property? If the expected constant noise keeps a resident from sleeping, if the smell of gas fumes keeps the family from the backyard, and if stadium-strength lights shining down on the bedroom windows every night does not infringe on the homeowner’s right of quiet enjoyment and use of the home, then what does?
Remember that, per the plan, this facility will be only 80 feet from a house. It doesn't take a wild imagination to think that it will impact the livability and therefore the value of the houses adjoining the property.
Even before the Coverts ever bought that land, potential buyers knew that eventually something would be built there. It could have been a Wal-Mart, car dealership, whatever. The unknown, and the fact that it could have potentially been something worse, had already subtracted from the value.
As far as imposing more restrictions, how will the car dealership impose restrictions on a neighboring home? Their yard isn't going to get any smaller because of it.
01-16-2013, 03:22 PM
9 posts, read
11,623 times
Reputation: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Komeht
Of course zoning that denies any reasonable use of a property or undue hardship in development would constituted a taking, I never stated or implied otherwise.
In any event, was FW wants to do in no way resembles a comprehensive municipal plan to direct the orderly growth of a city - what they are trying for in a an arbitrary post-hoc ad-hoc one-time restriction on a particular business - clearly not remotely constitutional.
I think it should be pointed out - communities such as FW are not without remedy. It is within their power to protect themselves by purchasing the land and deed restricting it themselves. That particular tract of land was for sale - with giant billboard on 71 stating it was for sale, not very long ago. The residents could have purchased the land for themselves and decided if and how it could be developed. The fact that FW did not value the land that highly and not willing to pay to protect itself should speak volumes about what is being attempted here.
I would like to know what giant billboard you are talking about! The land that was purchased by Covert was a foreclosure and there was no billboard or for sale sign put on this property. There were and are "for sale" signs on each side of this property, but never on this property directly. There are no giant billboards on any of the land on 71 so have no idea what you are talking about. For you to say this land had a giant billboard and the residents could have purchased this land, makes me highly suspicious what your true motives are for all your posts on this thread. Maybe it is you who is here under false pretenses as you have implied about myself and other posters.
01-16-2013, 04:25 PM
3,427 posts, read
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Reputation: 3633
Quote:
Originally Posted by
txlonghorn
How do you know that the existence of a dealership will not subtract or in any way impose more restrictions on the residential property? If the expected constant noise keeps a resident from sleeping, if the smell of gas fumes keeps the family from the backyard, and if stadium-strength lights shining down on the bedroom windows every night does not infringe on the homeowner’s right of quiet enjoyment and use of the home, then what does?
Remember that, per the plan, this facility will be only 80 feet from a house. It doesn't take a wild imagination to think that it will impact the livability and therefore the value of the houses adjoining the property.
What on earth are you talking about?
You start off suggesting that the Covert dealership could possibly impose more restrictions on the residential property and then follow on with a complete nonsequitor.
Whoever owns the car dealership real estate has zero ability to impose more restrictions property within the FW subdivision.
As far as "affecting the value of the houses adjoining the property" - such a proposition is pure speculation on your part. Sounds more like buyer's remorse. Got news for you - you never had any entitlement to a "preservation of value" to begin with. HOA corporations are control and liability shifting devices created for the benefit of the developer and local government, not you. You bought subject to restrictive covenants that did not burden the Covert property. You shouldn't be surprised that property owners adjacent FW are interested in self-imposition of the restrictive covenants burdening the FW property. The unrestricted property is worth more economically and from a use and enjoyment standpoint as well. You have unreasonable expectations as to others' use of their property.
You seem to be complaining that the car dealership might constitute a nuisance. Other retail shopping outlets or multi-family housing are not likely to result in "less" of any of the things you have complained about. No doubt owners of property adjacent FW anticipated FW would be a nuisance to them, yet here FW is.
You complain about a gas tank used for the dealership itself yet you have no problem with parking 2-3 smaller gas tanks in your garage every night as do all your neighbors in a subdivision of hundreds of small lots. You aren't concerned with the fuel or the smell of hundreds of these other tanks all around you. Given that you park these tanks in your household garages every evening, safety obviously isn't a concern either. What about the sounds and smells of lawn mowers, weed eaters, and air blowers as hundreds of lots are mowed every week in your subdivision?
There is probably nothing that could be developed on the car dealership property without attracting unwarranted whining from non-owners of the car dealership property. Whoever bought the lot that is in your example (they way it's presented, it sounds like at most one homeowner is affected) did so with the knowledge of the boundaries of the subdivision. Shouldn't have been any surprise at all that the owner of the adjacent property is not duty bound to respect the whims of FW residents as to the use and enjoyment of the adjacent property.
Many prospective purchasers might feel better about a car dealership going in as opposed to retail outlet stores, fast food restaurants, gas stations, multi-family housing, a power substation, parking garage, 5 story office buildings, a fire department substation, etc. Given the more pronounced aversion to HOA-burdened property for lots of folks, there are bigger turnoffs to buying in your subdivision than a neighboring car dealership.
01-16-2013, 04:39 PM
3,836 posts, read
5,742,307 times
Reputation: 2556
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SaveOurHillCountry
I would like to know what giant billboard you are talking about! The land that was purchased by Covert was a foreclosure and there was no billboard or for sale sign put on this property. There were and are "for sale" signs on each side of this property, but never on this property directly. There are no giant billboards on any of the land on 71 so have no idea what you are talking about. For you to say this land had a giant billboard and the residents could have purchased this land, makes me highly suspicious what your true motives are for all your posts on this thread. Maybe it is you who is here under false pretenses as you have implied about myself and other posters.
Interesting take. I know you won't believe me - so verify it for yourself - 23 acres and 1000 feet of frontage with (in all caps) NO ZONING was for sale after Falconhead West was developed. You can still see the billboards quite clearly on
Google Maps - use street view.
As for foreclosure postings - those are handled through the county and available publicly.
01-16-2013, 06:31 PM
Location: Holly Neighborhood, Austin, Texas
3,982 posts, read
6,707,958 times
Reputation: 2882
Keep in mind that if there had been a nature preserve or some other restricted use adjacent to FW the land there would have had greater value and the homes would have cost more. Hey don't feel so bad as I payed more for my house because the Holly power plant had been retired a few years before I bought. If I bought 6 years prior I would have gotten a 40% discount. In business and real estate the name of the game is TANSTAFL (there ain't no such thing as a free lunch), but also that timing plays a big part in the value equation.
01-18-2013, 04:59 PM
1 posts, read
2,059 times
Reputation: 10
Book Review: Conscious Capitalism - WSJ.com
I have not read the book Conscious Capitalism: Liberating the Heroic Spirit of Business, by John Mackey and Raj Sisodia, but the Wall Street Journal book review (Chicken Soup for a Davos Soul - Successful companies serve a purpose beyond making money) was a good read. It was particularly relevant, both because of the current #NoCovertinBeeCave situation and because one of the co-authors of the book, Mackey, is the co-CEO of Austin-based Whole Foods.
I wonder if Mackey has ever met the Coverts - - and what he would say if he knew about the Coverts' ridiculous idea of putting a car dealership LITERALLY in the backyard of a residential neighborhood. It certainly would be interesting if he used the Coverts as an example of what NOT to do and how NOT to act, if / when he goes on a book tour locally or nationally in the press, the media, etc.
A relevant excerpt from the article:
What does ("conscious capitalism") mean? Well, first, the authors say, it means having a clear purpose, beyond just making money....Second, conscious businesses consider the needs of all their stakeholders - which is to say, everyone touched by the business: employees, suppliers, customers and affected communities, as well as investors...Finally, conscious businesses have conscious leaders, who are "primarily motivated by service to the purpose of the business and its stakeholders, and not by the pursuit of power and personal enrichment."
It is clear that the leadership at Covert Auto Group is "Un" Conscious, using Mackey & Sisodia's definition. One has to wonder if the Coverts aren't brain-dead and tone-deaf, as well.
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Most Common Occupations - Construction and extraction occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Installation, maintenance, and repair occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Production, transportation, and material moving occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Production occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Transportation occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Material moving occupations (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutionalized population (%)
People in Group quarters - Correctional institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Federal prisons and detention centers (%)
People in Group quarters - Halfway houses (%)
People in Group quarters - Local jails and other confinement facilities (including police lockups) (%)
People in Group quarters - Military disciplinary barracks (%)
People in Group quarters - State prisons (%)
People in Group quarters - Other types of correctional institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Nursing homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals/wards, hospices, and schools for the handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals/wards and hospices for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospices or homes for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Military hospitals or wards for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Other hospitals or wards for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals or wards for drug/alcohol abuse (%)
People in Group quarters - Mental (Psychiatric) hospitals or wards (%)
People in Group quarters - Schools, hospitals, or wards for the mentally retarded (%)
People in Group quarters - Schools, hospitals, or wards for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutions for the deaf (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutions for the blind (%)
People in Group quarters - Orthopedic wards and institutions for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Wards in general hospitals for patients who have no usual home elsewhere (%)
People in Group quarters - Wards in military hospitals for patients who have no usual home elsewhere (%)
People in Group quarters - Juvenile institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Long-term care (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for abused, dependent, and neglected children (%)
People in Group quarters - Residential treatment centers for emotionally disturbed children (%)
People in Group quarters - Training schools for juvenile delinquents (%)
People in Group quarters - Short-term care, detention or diagnostic centers for delinquent children (%)
People in Group quarters - Type of juvenile institution unknown (%)
People in Group quarters - Noninstitutionalized population (%)
People in Group quarters - College dormitories (includes college quarters off campus) (%)
People in Group quarters - Military quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - On base (%)
People in Group quarters - Barracks, unaccompanied personnel housing (UPH), (Enlisted/Officer), ;and similar group living quarters for military personnel (%)
People in Group quarters - Transient quarters for temporary residents (%)
People in Group quarters - Military ships (%)
People in Group quarters - Group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes or halfway houses for drug/alcohol abuse (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally retarded (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Other group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Religious group quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - Dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Agriculture workers' dormitories on farms (%)
People in Group quarters - Job Corps and vocational training facilities (%)
People in Group quarters - Other workers' dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Crews of maritime vessels (%)
People in Group quarters - Other nonhousehold living situations (%)
People in Group quarters - Other noninstitutional group quarters (%)
Residents speaking English at home (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking other language at home (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Foreign born (%)
Class of Workers - Employee of private company (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed in own incorporated business (%)
Class of Workers - Private not-for-profit wage and salary workers (%)
Class of Workers - Local government workers (%)
Class of Workers - State government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Federal government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed workers in own not incorporated business and Unpaid family workers (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - No fuel used (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - No fuel used (%)
Armed forces status - In Armed Forces (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Veteran (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Nonveteran (%)
Fatal accidents locations in years 2005-2021
Fatal accidents locations in 2005
Fatal accidents locations in 2006
Fatal accidents locations in 2007
Fatal accidents locations in 2008
Fatal accidents locations in 2009
Fatal accidents locations in 2010
Fatal accidents locations in 2011
Fatal accidents locations in 2012
Fatal accidents locations in 2013
Fatal accidents locations in 2014
Fatal accidents locations in 2015
Fatal accidents locations in 2016
Fatal accidents locations in 2017
Fatal accidents locations in 2018
Fatal accidents locations in 2019
Fatal accidents locations in 2020
Fatal accidents locations in 2021
Alcohol use - People drinking some alcohol every month (%)
Alcohol use - People not drinking at all (%)
Alcohol use - Average days/month drinking alcohol
Alcohol use - Average drinks/week
Alcohol use - Average days/year people drink much
Audiometry - Average condition of hearing (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear a whisper from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear normal voice from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - Ears ringing, roaring, buzzing (%)
Audiometry - Had a job exposure to loud noise (%)
Audiometry - Had off-work exposure to loud noise (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high blood pressure (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Checking blood pressure at home (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Frequently checking blood cholesterol (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high cholesterol level (%)
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at supermarket/grocery store
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at other stores
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on eating out
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on carryout/delivered foods
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at supermarket/grocery store (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at other stores (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on eating out (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on carryout/delivered foods (%)
Current Health Status - General health condition (%)
Current Health Status - Blood donors (%)
Current Health Status - Has blood ever tested for HIV virus (%)
Current Health Status - Left-handed people (%)
Dermatology - People using sunscreen (%)
Diabetes - Diabetics (%)
Diabetes - Had a blood test for high blood sugar (%)
Diabetes - People taking insulin (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Diet health (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Milk product consumption (# of products/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals not home prepared (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals from fast food or pizza place (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Ready-to-eat foods (#/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Frozen meals/pizza (#/month)
Drug Use - People that ever used marijuana or hashish (%)
Drug Use - Ever used hard drugs (%)
Drug Use - Ever used any form of cocaine (%)
Drug Use - Ever used heroin (%)
Drug Use - Ever used methamphetamine (%)
Health Insurance - People covered by health insurance (%)
Kidney Conditions-Urology - Avg. # of times urinating at night
Medical Conditions - People with asthma (%)
Medical Conditions - People with anemia (%)
Medical Conditions - People with psoriasis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with overweight (%)
Medical Conditions - Elderly people having difficulties in thinking or remembering (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever received blood transfusion (%)
Medical Conditions - People having trouble seeing even with glass/contacts (%)
Medical Conditions - People with arthritis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with gout (%)
Medical Conditions - People with congestive heart failure (%)
Medical Conditions - People with coronary heart disease (%)
Medical Conditions - People with angina pectoris (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had heart attack (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had stroke (%)
Medical Conditions - People with emphysema (%)
Medical Conditions - People with thyroid problem (%)
Medical Conditions - People with chronic bronchitis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with any liver condition (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had cancer or malignancy (%)
Mental Health - People who have little interest in doing things (%)
Mental Health - People feeling down, depressed, or hopeless (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble sleeping or sleeping too much (%)
Mental Health - People feeling tired or having little energy (%)
Mental Health - People with poor appetite or overeating (%)
Mental Health - People feeling bad about themself (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble concentrating on things (%)
Mental Health - People moving or speaking slowly or too fast (%)
Mental Health - People having thoughts they would be better off dead (%)
Oral Health - Average years since last visit a dentist
Oral Health - People embarrassed because of mouth (%)
Oral Health - People with gum disease (%)
Oral Health - General health of teeth and gums (%)
Oral Health - Average days a week using dental floss/device
Oral Health - Average days a week using mouthwash for dental problem
Oral Health - Average number of teeth
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to control insects (%)
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to kill weeds (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People walking or bicycling (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - Average hours a day doing sedentary activities
Physical Activity - Average hours a day watching TV or videos
Physical Activity - Average hours a day using computer
Physical Functioning - People having limitations keeping them from working (%)
Physical Functioning - People limited in amount of work they can do (%)
Physical Functioning - People that need special equipment to walk (%)
Physical Functioning - People experiencing confusion/memory problems (%)
Physical Functioning - People requiring special healthcare equipment (%)
Prescription Medications - Average number of prescription medicines taking
Preventive Aspirin Use - Adults 40+ taking low-dose aspirin (%)
Reproductive Health - Vaginal deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Cesarean deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Deliveries resulted in a live birth (%)
Reproductive Health - Pregnancies resulted in a delivery (%)
Reproductive Health - Women breastfeeding newborns (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had a hysterectomy (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had both ovaries removed (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever taken birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women taking birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used Depo-Provera or injectables (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used female hormones (%)
Sexual Behavior - People 18+ that ever had sex (vaginal, anal, or oral) (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had anal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had any sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had anal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had any kind of sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first had sex
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female vaginal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a woman (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of woman performed oral sex on in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male anal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a man (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male oral sex partners in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - People using protection when performing oral sex (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of times people have vaginal or anal sex a year
Sexual Behavior - People having sex without condom (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male vaginal sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Circumcised males 18+ (%)
Sleep Disorders - Average hours sleeping at night
Sleep Disorders - People that has trouble sleeping (%)
Smoking-Cigarette Use - People smoking cigarettes (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with smell (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with taste (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had wisdom teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had tonsils teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a loss of consciousness because of a head injury (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a broken nose or other serious injury to face or skull (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had two or more sinus infections (%)
Weight - Average height (inches)
Weight - Average weight (pounds)
Weight - Average BMI
Weight - People that are obese (%)
Weight - People that ever were obese (%)
Weight - People trying to lose weight (%)