Austin, Houston- two different countries?

[Devout Urbanist]

Originally Posted by scm53

Thank you for proving my point.

So your point is that people who do not live in Austin (Joe Blow in Buda) should dictate the city's transportation policy?

Originally Posted by scm53

You coercive Utopians purport to speak for the "the needs and desires of people who live in Austin", who will experience nirvana if we do it your way.

Lots of people agree with "my way." The original comprehensive light rail plan enjoyed widespread support within the city limits.

Originally Posted by scm53

Who made you God? Who says "better public services" are the ne plus ultra? Maybe freedom of mobility rates ahead of "cohesive communities".

Who made your beloved Joe Blow God? And who says that cars mean "freedom of mobility"? What about people who do not have/want cars? Do they have freedom of mobility in a city with a lousy bus system, a bunch of highways and unfinished sidewalks?

Originally Posted by scm53

Just because it isn't what a "devout urbanist" places their faith in, doesn't make it wrong. If you want to convince people, then you need to make arguments more convincing than categorical statements such as "highway expansion has had disastrous results all over the country", when experience indicates otherwise. I've lived here when Ben White was a divided road. I like it better as a freeway. You never drove 183 as a surface street. It's better as a freeway. I remember when Mopac ended at 183. Sure is nice to drive it all the way to 35. Give me more of these "disastrous results".

Urbanist bible thumping is as unconvincing as Calvinist bible thumping.

If you think anything that accommodates drivers is just grand then we probably won't agree on what constitute disastrous results. But I would call destroying cohesive urban communities so suburban commuters can sit in traffic for hours everyday disastrous. Restructuring cities for the benefit of the auto industry has contributed to urban decay throughout the country--not to mention global warming. I'd call that disastrous.

[scm53]

Originally Posted by Devout Urbanist

So your point is that people who do not live in Austin (Joe Blow in Buda) should dictate the city's transportation policy?

Yea. I'd say that a guy whose employment is in Austin, who pays sales taxes in Austin, who pays Texas fuel taxes that are used to construct state highways as well as pay the state portion of federal highways has more of a voice - not "dictate", but a voice - than someone who lives in, oh say Pittsburgh - for example.

Run out of street corners in Pittsburgh to thump your urbanist bible on? As a real live Austin taxpayer (and voter), I will agree to not inject my opinion into how to fix Pittsburgh if you will show us the same courtesy.

[beautyforashes11]

IMO, Houston took care of its water/bayou issues in the early 1900's after several devastating floods. We are currently routing water from the Trinity River to fill massive reservoirs since our aquifers have been depleted. This is why Houston now has the resources to devote manpower and money to fixing our roads. Now mass-transit is another story, but our highways are in excellent shape compared with any other major metropolitan area, and we are improving all the time (290, 59, and 610/59 intersection soon for examples).

Austin is finally facing massive water issues, and all of their resources must go to that right now given the droughts. You only pay X amount of taxes - the City can't fix everything, so traffic must wait or be constructed as Tolls right now.

[Novacek]

Originally Posted by beautyforashes11

Austin is finally facing massive water issues, and all of their resources must go to that right now given the droughts. You only pay X amount of taxes - the City can't fix everything, so traffic must wait or be constructed as Tolls right now.

I think you're conflating the city of Austin and the LCRA. Austin has a guaranteed contract with the LCRA through like 2050 for water. The city isn't spending all its resources on water, it's not really spending anything except for some minimal conservation stuff.

Austin has traffic issues that Houston doesn't because Austin intentionally self-inflicted them on itself (the don't build it and they won't come strategy). Now we need more infrastructure, but state and federal spending is no longer there like it was in the past.

[philopower]

As a lifelong Houston resident and a recent austin transplant to study at UT, both cities definitely have their trade offs. Houston is the whole package, you can find almost anything there besides hills and full blown music festivals (though freepress summerfest is growing). Houston development is really impressive and it's amazing to see all the skyscrapers popping up literally all over the place. Austin is lacking in many many many things, but has a youthful and progressive energy that's virtually non-existent in Houston. I have never seen so many openly gay couples being affectionate in public until I came to Austin. If you fit into the young and progressive mold, I think Austin is honestly the better city.

[Devout Urbanist]

Originally Posted by scm53

Yea. I'd say that a guy whose employment is in Austin, who pays sales taxes in Austin, who pays Texas fuel taxes that are used to construct state highways as well as pay the state portion of federal highways has more of a voice - not "dictate", but a voice - than someone who lives in, oh say Pittsburgh - for example.

The question is whether that voice should matter more than the voice of someone who lives and works in the city limits when it comes to implementing transit policy.

Originally Posted by scm53

As a real live Austin taxpayer (and voter), I will agree to not inject my opinion into how to fix Pittsburgh if you will show us the same courtesy.

If you're looking for courtesy you need to check between B and D in the dictionary, pal. I'm sure as hell not going to stop sharing my views about the city I grew up in just to appease some hypersensitive transplant.

[dv1033]

Originally Posted by Devout Urbanist

The question is whether that voice should matter more than the voice of someone who lives and works in the city limits when it comes to implementing transit policy.



If you're looking for courtesy you need to check between B and D in the dictionary, pal. I'm sure as hell not going to stop sharing my views about the city I grew up in just to appease some hypersensitive transplant.

It's not about cities, it's about metro areas.

[Franko]

Are Austin and Houston two different countries?

Short answer: "YES!"

Kipling said:

Oh, East is East and West is West, and never the twain shall meet,
Till Earth and Sky stand presently at God's great Judgment Seat;
But there is neither East nor West, Border, nor Breed, nor Birth,
When two strong men stand face to face, though they come from the ends of the earth!

To paraphrase Kipling Austin is Austin and Houston is Houston and the two cannot meet. Austin in central Texas. Houston is east Texas. Austin is liberal leaning and Houston is conservative leaning. Austin is dominated by state government and a big university. Houston is dominated by industry and commerce. These are facts that by themselves are neither good nor bad.

I lived in Austin to go to university in the middle seventies. I had more fun than what I am willing to admit to in detail. But that was then and I am closer to 60 than 20 now. Austin is different as am I. I am sure there are great things about Houston both then and now. I have never lived there, but feel a bit overwhelmed when visiting. I like the Galleria Mall and the proximity to Galveston and the ocean. The comparison of the two cities are like comparing apples and oranges, or better apples and watermelons.