Austin Urban Light Rail Phase 1 - Why Mueller? (Houston, Leander: house, employment)

[steve78757]

Originally Posted by jb9152

Actually, while the Mueller alignment was being presented as a reasonable option for the purposes of cost estimation, etc., it has *not* been selected for Phase I of Urban Rail. The Project Connect partners' technical team is now meeting with the AURA group (a grassroots effort that questions the process by which alignment alternative choices have been made in the past) to work on an alignment alternative analysis program to determine the best first investment.

So, I understand there's a lot of hand-wringing, but the conversation is far from over on this.

The process has all the signs of something being rammed through without much public input, with what is to come serving as mere window dressing. I hope that is not the case. As you mentioned, there are a good number of grassroots organizers and veterans of past rail battles volunteering their time trying to put the brakes on this and bring transparency and public input back into the equation.

[steve78757]

Originally Posted by jb9152

I think you're missing the point on this, which is that the Feds will be less likely to support with Federal $ a project that is duplicative of one that already is being built in the same alignment. Not sure that that is entirely the case, but that's the argument. I don't think you understood that.

No I get your point. I'm saying that it would be wise to turn down 40 million in federal dollars if means avoiding a 550 million dollar mistake. Also, I don't believe there is an assumption that federal dollars would be involved in the Mueller deal. 35 other cities are line for that money ahead of Austin.

[pmiranda]

Personally, I'd like to see us bite the bullet and build a real underground line under Guadalupe/S 1st, all the way from Southpark Meadows to the triangle. Then put a station there and run a line to the Domain under Burnet and another up N Lamar to the executive airport. Put a station under the Hooter's parking lot to start a line under Riverside to the airport and by the time you're done doing all of that maybe the COTA folks will have paid off their track and would pay to run a line to the airport so they don't have to pave any more hillside. That would let us run much bigger events like 24 hour races. (I'm biased from taking the tram from the town of Le Mans to the race track during their 24h race.)

That's a huge investment, but Real Cities do this sort of thing.

[Komeht]

Originally Posted by Novacek

Just like when you started this same converation over on the skyscraper forums a couple of months ago, single lining has two issues:

1. It compromises the frequency the system can obtain.

2. It still requires reducing traffic lanes. Only now you're making traffic worse and probably not greatly increasing transit use (because of 1).

Head ways of less than 10 minutes (very achievable on short streatch of single track) aren't an issue.

Rail anywhere will necessarily take up traffic lanes unless you bury it. Replacing a low capacity lane of traffic with a high capacity lane of transit is a trade off worth taking.

[Komeht]

Originally Posted by jb9152

Actually, while the Mueller alignment was being presented as a reasonable option for the purposes of cost estimation, etc., it has *not* been selected for Phase I of Urban Rail. The Project Connect partners' technical team is now meeting with the AURA group (a grassroots effort that questions the process by which alignment alternative choices have been made in the past) to work on an alignment alternative analysis program to determine the best first investment.

So, I understand there's a lot of hand-wringing, but the conversation is far from over on this.

We'll see...but reading the tea leaves the only option on the table right now is Mueller. And if that doesn't happen I wouldn't expect a vote for many many more years.

BTW, people misread me. I'm not pushing the Mueller route, I'm explaining the lay of the land right now. If I were king I would have a light rail going straight up Guadalupe Lamar corridor. And then the next route to Mueller.

[tildahat]

Originally Posted by steve78757

No I get your point. I'm saying that it would be wise to turn down 40 million in federal dollars if means avoiding a 550 million dollar mistake. Also, I don't believe there is an assumption that federal dollars would be involved in the Mueller deal. 35 other cities are line for that money ahead of Austin.

From people I've talked to, if they could do it by fiat, the Guadalupe/Lamar segment would be first. But the powers that be feel that a combination of politics (NIMBYs, UT really likes the eastern alignment, etc) and effects of past decisions (metrorapid, etc.) make that a no-go as part of the first phase.

So let's say they make their case, and you think they are wrong. Do you plan to vote for it despite reservations, vote against it, or actively campaign against it?

[Komeht]

Originally Posted by steve78757

No I get your point. I'm saying that it would be wise to turn down 40 million in federal dollars if means avoiding a 550 million dollar mistake. Also, I don't believe there is an assumption that federal dollars would be involved in the Mueller deal. 35 other cities are line for that money ahead of Austin.

The fed dollars are essential to making this happen.

The Feds are not going to throw more money at a different transit on Guadalupe Lamar after investing in BRT. Not going to happen for a decade or more.

[Komeht]

Originally Posted by TexasHorseLady

Interesting how differently we view these things.

My observation over the past 40-odd years as an adult living in Austin has been that the city council puts something out for a vote, the voters turn it down, then the city council puts the same thing up for a vote again, the voters turn it on, rinse, repeat, until the voters are worn down and give the city council (and whoever is pulling their strings) whatever they want in sheer exhaustion. Then whoever it is that thinks whatever it is is just the best think since sliced bread no matter whether it really fits or would work here or not says that the voters overwhelmingly approved something when all they were doing was saying, "OK! Just go away and leave us ALONE!" (Inserted here, that doesn't work real well with two-year-olds who are having a tantrum for not getting their way, because it just teaches them to do the same thing the next time they decide they've just GOT to have X, Y or Z, and it doesn't work real well with city council's, either.)

Don't you live in Some far flung suburb in Williamson County?

[Novacek]

Originally Posted by Komeht

The fed dollars are essential to making this happen.

The Feds are not going to throw more money at a different transit on Guadalupe Lamar after investing in BRT. Not going to happen for a decade or more.

That's not the issue. Previous federal money spent in the corridor is not one of the objective, published criteria used by the FTA grant ranking process.

And BRT will have been in place for a decade by the time rail can be operating.

[tildahat]

Originally Posted by Komeht

We'll see...but reading the tea leaves the only option on the table right now is Mueller. And if that doesn't happen I wouldn't expect a vote for many many more years.

BTW, people misread me. I'm not pushing the Mueller route, I'm explaining the lay of the land right now. If I were king I would have a light rail going straight up Guadalupe Lamar corridor. And then the next route to Mueller.

This. Except I might add an extra 'many'...