Austin Urban Light Rail Phase 1 - Why Mueller? (West, Howe: school, university)

[Komeht]

Originally Posted by steve78757

I don't think we should be held hostage by a 40 million dollar grant for BRT. I don't know where you stand on that. But I agree with you that this is likely a done deal, I just hope that it's not.

My main point remains that going forward with Mueller will most certainly lead to defeat, for reasons that have nothing to do with density or engineering issues. AISD will be asking for close to one billion dollars this year, yet this council thinks a rushed vote for Mueller has a chance? Federal grants, future density, looking at the big picture, and so on and so forth will all be washed away in the upcoming final landslide defeat for this outgoing city council (good riddance) and urban light rail in Austin. Vision is useless without common sense.

Well, I wouldn't characterize the vote as "rushed" because it'll have been 14 years and many many attempts since the last time Austin voted on light rail.

But - essentially, I agree this is going to be a very very tough battle to win because pro-rail forces are split and anti-rail forces are united.

[Komeht]

Originally Posted by Novacek

The revised data will say the same thing that the 2000 data said. G/L has a higher theoretical ridership, but there's no room in the corridor. Putting rail there would require taking 3 of the 4 traffic lanes.

There's all sorts of potential rail systems that have higher ridership than what's being proposed. But if they're not feasible (either financially or politically), it's not the best option. That's what AURA is getting wrong, ridership is not the only metric.

Disagree again that G/L doesn't have room - single track a short section and you have all the room you need.

[Komeht]

Originally Posted by steve78757

Can you explain your reasoning in saying that the Red Line killed any possibility of the Lamar/Guadalupe route? And as I mentioned, you could add a stop to the red line at 45th for a lot less than 550 million dollars. Why do you assume "there will never be another stop closer"?

Meeting current demand should outweigh spurring future density. The only political reality here is that the Mueller plan will be voted down.

Neither will the Mueller one. Like I said, they will kill rail in this town for good because the votes will just not be there for Mueller. There was a lot of excitement in 2000 and it still lost. What I'm seeing and hearing regarding this new plan is a lots of yawns and WTFs.

As long as Mueller's fabulous-ness does not come at the expense of the rest of town I have no problem with it.

1. Red line killed Guadalupe by taking the highest ridership corridor out of the picture. The pitch was Redline's success would spur lightrail - well, that didn't happen and the one thing that is certain is that lightrail will not be on Guadalupe Lamar corridor. It's been 10 years since Red-line passed and we're even further away from Guadalupe route than ever.

2. I agree the Mueller plan faces an incredibly uphill battle - it's one of the reasons I'm opposed to starting with it. So you mis-read me again. In any case - the fact of the matter is some people have been arguing that Mueller density can be increased with a zoning change and I'm saying that while technically correct, it is a political dead issue and will never happen - so it's a moot point.

3. I agree that the Mueller plan is perplexing - my only point of my post was to explain how it became *the* plan. Again, it's not the plan I would choose. But it seems to be the only plan that is a viable option right now.

4. Mueller is a huge boom to the city in both amenities and tax base. There are several great parks maintained curtesy of the POA to a higher standard than city parks and open to all city residents. There will ultimately be a pretty great hub of activities (shops, restaurants, cafes, theaters) on the East side. Every one of those homes is paying about a 12K +- property tax check every year that goes to support all the other goodies the city needs to pay for on land that use to have zero value whatsoever to the city. And the neighborhoods around Mueller are getting great amenities and becoming revitalized themselves. Mueller is a huge win for the city and it isn't costing the rest of the city anything.

[steve78757]

I agree the Mueller plan faces an incredibly uphill battle - it's one of the reasons I'm opposed to starting with it. So you mis-read me again.

I'll get to your other points later, but I'm just debating your points and asking you to clarify your statements my friend. I've never stated that I think you are on one side of the fence or the other. I couldn't care less.

[steve78757]

Originally Posted by Novacek

The revised data will say the same thing that the 2000 data said. G/L has a higher theoretical ridership, but there's no room in the corridor. Putting rail there would require taking 3 of the 4 traffic lanes.

The following is from a very knowledgeable source.

"There are actually 5 lanes, including the center "chicken" lane, for much of this arterial. Besides acquiring property and widening the street, it's also worth considering narrowing lanes to 9 ft. and appropriating the center turning lane (yielding an additional 18 ft). Or a combination of that and a modest widening of the street by appropriating adjacent parking space. Also under consideration from 38th St. to 45th St. was acquiring basically vacant State MHMR land along Guadalupe from the state for additional ROW."

And also....

"There have been at least three major federally sanctioned projects proposed for running LRT down Lamar-Guadalupe and maintaining at least 2 lanes of traffic in each direction: (1) Study by EP Hamilton Associates/LTK Engineering for CMTA in the early 1990s; (2) Study by PB for CMTA in late 1990s-2000; and (3) Joint CMTA-COA Rapid Transit Project study, 2000-2003.

I'd call this rather compelling evidence that the G-L route is feasible."

There's all sorts of potential rail systems that have higher ridership than what's being proposed. But if they're not feasible (either financially or politically), it's not the best option. That's what AURA is getting wrong, ridership is not the only metric.

What metric does Mueller have over Lamar-Guadalupe? I hope you aren't going to claim that the Mueller alignment is without the same types of ROW issues. Because they exist there as well.

[mayfair44]

G/L has metrics while Mueller has its fingers crossed.

"I have been given permission to reevaluate [the #Austin urban rail project] from scratch." - Kyle Keahey, Urban Rail Lead

[jb9152]

Originally Posted by steve78757

The process has all the signs of something being rammed through without much public input, with what is to come serving as mere window dressing. I hope that is not the case. As you mentioned, there are a good number of grassroots organizers and veterans of past rail battles volunteering their time trying to put the brakes on this and bring transparency and public input back into the equation.

I think you'll be pleasantly surprised. New Urban Rail Lead just brought on board, new Interlocal Agreement between the city, Capital Metro, and Lone Star Rail District, and public input planned.

Although it doesn't seem like it, it's relatively early in the planning for Urban Rail. The process started but then was delayed for some time to get the regional vision together. So, it probably seemed to all concerned that there were decisions being made and things going on behind closed doors. As one of the people who would have been behind those theoretical closed doors, I can tell you that that is not the case.

As I said, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

[jb9152]

Originally Posted by steve78757

No I get your point. I'm saying that it would be wise to turn down 40 million in federal dollars if means avoiding a 550 million dollar mistake. Also, I don't believe there is an assumption that federal dollars would be involved in the Mueller deal. 35 other cities are line for that money ahead of Austin.

Too late to turn that down at this point - shovels are in the ground, new buses purchased.

Federal dollars would be involved in the Mueller deal, if that alignment were to be chosen as the first investment. The assumption has always been that whatever project turns out to be the first phase, half would be local (bond money), and half would be federal.

There is no "ahead", necessarily. It's a competitive process, not a FIFO.

[steve78757]

1. Red line killed Guadalupe by taking the highest ridership corridor out of the picture. The pitch was Redline's success would spur lightrail - well, that didn't happen and the one thing that is certain is that lightrail will not be on Guadalupe Lamar corridor. It's been 10 years since Red-line passed and we're even further away from Guadalupe route than ever.

The Guadalupe line is not out of the picture, despite what you and others claim. It's an alignment that actually has a slim chance to win voter approval. Mueller, on the other hand, is DOA. It has zero chance of passing in a city-wide bond election. That's the main point Mueller proponents (not saying you are one) keep ignoring. In 2014, it's a loser.

2. I agree the Mueller plan faces an incredibly uphill battle - it's one of the reasons I'm opposed to starting with it. So you mis-read me again. In any case - the fact of the matter is some people have been arguing that Mueller density can be increased with a zoning change and I'm saying that while technically correct, it is a political dead issue and will never happen - so it's a moot point.

We only disagree in that you think Guadalupe-Lamar is dead and Mueller may pass. It's vice versa for me.

3. I agree that the Mueller plan is perplexing - my only point of my post was to explain how it became *the* plan. Again, it's not the plan I would choose. But it seems to be the only plan that is a viable option right now.

There are lots of dedicated, experienced folks trying to prove you wrong as I type this. The battle is not over.

4. Mueller is a huge boom to the city in both amenities and tax base. There are several great parks maintained curtesy of the POA to a higher standard than city parks and open to all city residents. There will ultimately be a pretty great hub of activities (shops, restaurants, cafes, theaters) on the East side. Every one of those homes is paying about a 12K +- property tax check every year that goes to support all the other goodies the city needs to pay for on land that use to have zero value whatsoever to the city. And the neighborhoods around Mueller are getting great amenities and becoming revitalized themselves. Mueller is a huge win for the city and it isn't costing the rest of the city anything.

I think the Mueller development is great. It's going to be awesome, I agree. But we agree that it's not the place to start phase one for good reason.

[steve78757]

Originally Posted by mayfair44

G/L has metrics while Mueller has its fingers crossed.

"I have been given permission to reevaluate [the #Austin urban rail project] from scratch." - Kyle Keahey, Urban Rail Lead

I like the sound of that.