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Old 04-30-2013, 08:03 AM
 
Location: Round Rock, Texas
12,892 posts, read 13,205,259 times
Reputation: 13825

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Komeht View Post
Exactly. He makes zero mention of the huge premium that living in the urban centers commands over the suburbs. People are opting to live urban when they can afford it. Unfortunately, rather backwards land use regulations preven significant increases in density to meet the demand - forcing people to move to the suburbs who in many many cases would choose to live centrally if they could afford it.
Really?

Then why all the multitudes of $million McMansions & estates spreading all over the Hill Country & Lake areas?

"huge premium" over the 'burbs?

If you're talking about entertainment/arts/dining, then yeah...more of it is concentrated in the city core.

But many, if not most, suburbanites probably don't care to patronize noisy clubs to hear bad garage bands, drink in overpriced hipster bars, rub shoulders with hordes of drunken twentysomethings & gangbangers, or dine in overrated funky restaurants.
Some do, but driving an extra 30 minutes isn't a big deal if they want to bad enough.

To each his own, but leave mine alone.

But I agree it's a shame the working class families & individuals have been forced out of the central city by high taxes & real estate prices.

 
Old 04-30-2013, 08:35 AM
 
Location: Central Texas
13,715 posts, read 31,042,633 times
Reputation: 9270
Quote:
Originally Posted by austin-steve View Post
Trainwreck and scm53 make my case better than I do myself.

FWIW, I'm closing on a newer East Austin home today, near 12th/Chicon. Sold immediately for over (bank) appraisal value and higher than I could justify with comps, but the limited supply compared to the buyer pool drives this.

When I held an open house the first (and only) weekend on the market, a parade of buyers (about 18 total groups) came through in 3 hours, almost 100% 30ish couples, none with kids. I think they were mostly Mr. Florida's so-called "cultural creatives", or were wanting to join that group by buying in East Austin.

I always engage people in talk to try to learn something. I simply asked "what do you like about East Austin?" In response to that question, it's very interesting that most people can't really articulate a "hard" reason. By that I mean, when I held an open house in Western Oaks about a month ago and asked "what do you like SW Austin?", almost all lookers could immediately blurt out a specific reason such as "we want Mills Elementary" or "we've researched lots of areas and like this location the best".

For East Austin, the answers were hesitant and halting in comparison. Many of these lookers were kicking tires and really unsure of their own rationale. When I ask "where else are you looking?", it's all over the map, places like Avery or SW Austin. Places you wouldn't expect to be in the same consideration pool. And many would readily admit "we're not sure, we think we want to be close to downtown". Not one looker, not one, said anything like "I work downtown and ride my bike" or anything directly connected to the utility of the location. Instead it's a cultural/lifestyle choice which they themselves seem to be less than 100% set on.

If Central Austin had great schools and cheap homes, would more families live there? Absolutely. But it doesn't, and never again will compared to the relative costs in the 1970s/1980s/ and most of the 1990s.

Steve
The answers to your questions about "why East Austin" are interesting. They sound much like the same vague reasons people give when asked something like "why did you pay $1000 for that purse?" That is a lifestyle/status choice, not a practical choice. For some people the mere idea of living in suburbia is cancer. People choose Circle C for very different (and clear) reasons.
 
Old 04-30-2013, 08:46 AM
 
1,557 posts, read 2,386,398 times
Reputation: 2596
"why all the multitudes of $million McMansions & estates spreading all over the Hill Country & Lake areas"
I wish a great portion of it had been saved for all by being set aside as a natural preserve. It makes me crazy when I go out to Bee Caves and see all the "clown cars" clogging Hwy 290 and 71. All that beautiful habitat now home to over-sized houses, cars and shopping centers. Blecchh!! I think one of the reasons for promoting denser living (whether you personally like it or not) is that it helps to save some of our greener spaces on the fringe. I wish that was more of a priority but it's not.
We chose to eventually move back into Austin after trying out the suburbs twice. We are paying for it dearly with property taxes and will eventually have to move on to make room for higher income folks who are moving in.
 
Old 04-30-2013, 09:04 AM
 
8,231 posts, read 17,268,754 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Komeht View Post
a ticky tacky stick shack on the mudfields of Hutto, .
Ever wonder if maybe a "ticky tacky stick shack" is all they can afford?

Talk about elitist?
 
Old 04-30-2013, 09:11 AM
 
Location: central Austin
7,228 posts, read 16,038,189 times
Reputation: 3915
I live very central -- but really, compared to living central in a major urban center (DC, NYC, Boston, etc) is basically suburbia. Fairly big SFH, carport instead of a garage, and a small yard, nothing like a downtown condo (I'd never live on Rainey Street or in a high rise). For us the appeal is pure proximity -- 8 minutes to the airport, 10-15 minutes to downtown (can bike or take the bus or even a cab), walk or bike to the trail, etc. And I realize that this is unique and personal attribute -- but I like economic diversity in my neighborhood. Master planned communities where everyone must have X of dollars to get in make me extremely anxious. Sure, pretty, (overly done) homes in my neighborhood command incredible prices but there are still ratty duplexes, large section 8 apartment complexes, tiny bungalows, and a variety of rental properties that make the place interesting. Well-priced homes are getting snatched up by investors not families which is not a good long term trend but long-term renters add to the neighborhood too. The day my HEB starts to resemble one in the suburbs . . . that is when I know we should move.
 
Old 04-30-2013, 09:13 AM
 
Location: Austin, TX
15,242 posts, read 35,471,075 times
Reputation: 8587
I was curious about the walk score thing, so I ran the beta version (that looks at actual route, not distance) and found it somewhat interesting. My house scored a 53 (out of 100). After I started, this got a little long and was more for my edification than anything else....feel free to ignore

Groceries 15.8 out of 20
HEB Escarpment Blvd
.5 mi

I guess 1/2 mile is too far to walk to get groceries for 21% of people? I guess that could be an accurate assessment, if that is what the 15.8 out of 20 means.

Restaurants and Bars 13.8 out of 20
Austin Scoops
.3 mi
Waterloo Ice House
.3 mi
Royal Tiki
.3 mi
Mangieri's Pizza Cafe
.5 mi
Blue Bamboo Viet-Thai Grill
.6 mi
Subway
.7 mi
zpizza
.8 mi
Which Wich Superior Sandwiches
1.1 mi

Even considering that they left out two that I can think of off the top of my head that are <0.5 mi., that looks like several eating places nearby. Not to mention that HEB has a cafe that I would eat at long before Subway.


Shopping 1.7 out of 15
Kash Boutique
.9 mi
Felicias Fashions
1.4 mi
Runwalkfitness LLC
1.8 mi
Vintage Vault
2.2 mi


I find that 'shopping' as a category is interesting. You go to a specific store for an item (or specific category, anyway), so a high score does not mean what you are looking for is accessible nearby (albeit it is more likely, I suppose). I have never been to any of these shops listed in my score, but I have been to ATX bikes - which isn't listed (although I do go on my bike). I am not a shopper, and when I do shop for an item, it tends to be online and arrives at my door, so the walk is, oh, about 3 feet. So, yes, I do have 'poor' shopping options, but I go shopping about once per month in Sunset Valley. This is weighed as 3/4 as heavy restaurants and groceries, which I need access to many, many times more than shopping.

Coffee 12.7 out of 15
Starbucks
.4 mi
Satellite Bistro & Bar
.5 mi

Yeah, I have good access to coffee (plus one or two more not listed). This can be a bad thing, because I would save money if I just made it myself . This is also weighted 3/4s of groceries and restaurants, which I find a bit odd.

Schools 4.7 out of 6
Bright Horizons
.5 mi


For me (and this is obviously situational), the proximity of a day care is useful, but the elementary school is also that same distance and the Jr High, as well (Bowie will require a bus or ride, though, when that day comes). This is weighted 40% of coffee or shopping, but I am at the school(s) at least 5 times a week for 3/4 of the year - so, like, 180 times a year twice a day? I am not sure why that is not more important than coffee or shopping. Yes, some people will not have kids, but yes, some people will not drink coffee, either.

Parks 0.5 out of 6
Dick Nichols District Park
1.3 mi

This one is a bit odd. I don't really have an issue with the weighting, but they missed two closer parks (CC at right around a mile, and a small COA park at .65 miles) and did not count the elementary school which has an excellent playground/park like area that is open to the public on weekends and after hours (when we normally need a park). We do bike to Dick Nichols, again because of the excellent bike lanes.

Book Stores 0 out of 6
None

No, don't know of any nearby bookstore. Got a Kindle and Amazon Prime account for physical books. Isn't this kind of under shopping anyway? If we add the 15 pt weight from shopping with the 6 pts from bookstores, it outweighs the activities we do on a daily basis. We do go to half priced books or B&N once in a while, but not very often anymore

Entertainment 1.5 out of 6
Alamo Drafthouse Cinema Slaughter Lane
.9 mi

This one is kind of accurate, except it only includes pay entertainment. We socialize with the neighbors as one of our primary evening activities. This is obviously 'us' specific - if you like to go out to shows (or museums, see bands, etc) then the you will likely have to drive.


Banking 4.8 out of 6
Wells Fargo Bank
.5 mi

..and Chase (same distance), but we do most banking online, over-weighted in my opinion.

Pedestrian Friendliness -2.2 (see below)
It seems we get dinged for too long of blocks AND for too many intersections? Would we have more intersections if our blocks were shorter? Maybe we need more intersections? It just says they both are poor, doesn't really explain why. The frequent sidewalks and numerous bike lanes seem to be pedestrian friendly. Also, the long blocks have no driveways exiting to the main surface streets, meaning you do not have cars blocking the sidewalks or vehicles exiting commercial space very often.

Total Walk Score
53 out of 100

Well, if I re-weighted it to my needs (eliminate banking and bookstores entirely; lowered coffee, entertainment, and shopping; and increase schools and grocery shopping ), 'correct' parks based on our actual access, and then recalculated, I get a number in the mid 60s instead of low 50s. Note that I took a 'hit' by lowering coffee and eliminating banking, so I really wasn't trying to bias the results unfairly.
 
Old 04-30-2013, 09:35 AM
 
Location: Round Rock, Texas
13,437 posts, read 15,372,598 times
Reputation: 18959
Quote:
Originally Posted by mimimomx3 View Post
Ever wonder if maybe a "ticky tacky stick shack" is all they can afford?

Talk about elitist?
True.
Funny enough, I have never seen any "ticky tacky stick shacks" in Hutto. I have seen such buildings in hip "Central East Austin", side by side with the carbon copy modern buildings. Not like it matters.

The notion that lots of people live in the suburbs because they can't afford to live centrally makes me laugh a little. I'm sure all of those techies looking to live in Cedar Park and Round Rock can't afford to live centrally.

TW and Scopro sum up my sentiments exactly. Why is this even an argument. Where you live is a personal decision that should be respected.
 
Old 04-30-2013, 09:39 AM
 
7,742 posts, read 15,058,450 times
Reputation: 4295
Quote:
Originally Posted by austin-steve View Post
Trainwreck and scm53 make my case better than I do myself.

FWIW, I'm closing on a newer East Austin home today, near 12th/Chicon. Sold immediately for over (bank) appraisal value and higher than I could justify with comps, but the limited supply compared to the buyer pool drives this.
this is funny, we had dinner with some friends this weekend who were telling us how they went to watch their daughter play at a bar at 12th/chicon and how there were drug dealers on the corner and they felt totally unsafe.
 
Old 04-30-2013, 09:53 AM
 
8,231 posts, read 17,268,754 times
Reputation: 3696
One thing that I can't justify in living in a high-rise type situation downtown is the idea of paying property tax for air. In a SF home, you're paying taxes on land.
 
Old 04-30-2013, 10:08 AM
 
Location: Austin, TX
15,242 posts, read 35,471,075 times
Reputation: 8587
Okay, so I have a friend that lives in a Condo at 3rd and Colorado, so I ran their score (which is 'walking paradise'):
Groceries 20 out of 20
Royal Blue Grocery
.1 mi

Never heard of the place, so I Googled it and some reviews. Looks like it if more of a cafe with a sort of convenience store setup for groceries. It sounds very good, though, but about half the good reviews say it is 'reasonably priced' and the other half of the good reviews indicate 'pricey'. I guess it depends on your reference price. I can't imagine doing family shopping there, though, as it is described as a 'nook', although being in the building would make it very accessible. I guess it only does the closest grocery store, but I estimate it is about 0.7 miles to Whole Foods, which I suspect would be the main choice for groceries - and further and more expensive than my HEB.

Restaurants and Bars 20 out of 20
Cantina Laredo
.1 mi
Elephant Room
.1 mi
Sullivan's Steakhouse
.1 mi
Bar Chi Sushi
.1 mi
Imperia
.1 mi
La Traviata
.1 mi
Swift's Attic
.1 mi
Manuel's Downtown
.1 mi

Very nice list (even skipping the bars), but I can eat out about 2-3X as much at my list of restaurants than I can Sullivan's, Bar Chi, La Traviata, or Manuel's. They are awesome, would love to have them close, but would still rarely go there except special occasions. There may be places that fit my budget, but they do not show up on the list.

Shopping 15 out of 15
Prize
.1 mi
Savoir Beds
.1 mi
Dress Shop
.1 mi
Peyton's Place
.1 mi
Estilo
.1 mi

Don't know anything about these places, but I am pretty sure I would shop just as little as I do the places near me. You know, I MIGHT need to walk down and drag a bed back to my place....

Coffee 15 out of 15
Caffé Medici
.1 mi

and I am sure there are many others nearby. They probably aren't that different in price than Starbucks, I suppose. But I just can't see weighting my housing location this heavily for coffee..... This place does get good reviews, though, may have to try it some time .

Schools 6 out of 6
Helping Hands
.2 mi

[color="RoyalBlue"]This looks like a specialty charter school, bu it is hard to tell, or even if it is a school or just offices. The elementary school that servers this address is Matthews Elem. about 1.6 miles away and across north Lamar. Don't think that would earn a 6 out of 6.[

Oh, just confirmed that the school is just a school admin (via UT system). The actual school is on Ave B. north of UT./COLOR]

Parks 6 out of 6
Republic Park
.3 mi

Really? Has anyone been to Republic park lately? Can you imagine taking the kids there? Now, the Hike and Bike trail is very close and is excellent for adults and not bad for kids. The closest 'kid' park (i.e. has a pool) that I can find with casual perusing of GE is the West Austin Park, which is about as far (or further) than Dick Nichols is to our house. There may be others closer, I just don't see them and don't know the area that well. The parks that show up are skate parks and BMX parks, which will be better for slightly older kids.


Book Stores 5.4 out of 6
Austin Duck Adventures
.4 mi

Hah! never knew they were (or had) a book store... I don't doubt that there are close book stores, but not sure that I would count Austin Duck Adv. as my primary source for book hunting.

Entertainment 6 out of 6
Mexic-Arte
.1 mi

Well, downtown wins here hands-down. My friend likes going to live music, seeing the running events, and going to whatever is going on downtown. It isn't the proximity of the Mexic-Arte museum that should score points, it is the non-physical structures entertainment that does it, for the most part.

Banking 6 out of 6
Guaranty Bank
.1 mi

Oh, great, there are banks here, too, like every 300 feet across this country...... Btw, get in a credit union if you haven't already...

Pedestrian Friendliness -1 (see below)
Dinged for number of intersections again, go figure, I guess maybe more is better, you get to go in a straighter line? But this ranking considers actual path/distance, so that is kind of double counting, then. Maybe too many makes you have to cross the street a lot?

Anyway, this near perfect score would make my walking life more difficult - actual grocery store is further, school is much further, and not nearly as many parks that meet my needs (although they may meet others needs). I would also not be able to walk to as many affordable restaurants, although I would be able to go to a lot more entertainment events. In reality, that is really the only real draw for me is that I could go to the Pecan Street or catch some live music more frequently. Finally, the walking score is flawed somewhat seriously when it only looks for the closet 'school' (regardless of what it teaches) and can't find a real bookstore anyway.
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