Mueller HEB (Houston, Dallas, San Antonio: amusement park, live, dangerous)

[Komeht]

Originally Posted by scm53

Your opinion presented as fact.

As someone who actually lived here, and shopped at WF before CM opened, there was no comparison. WF was, and is, an organic focused "health foods" store - with all the compromises that go with that. CM is dedicated to the highest quality, regardless of source. A basic difference that hasn't changed in the almost thirty years that CM has been opened. WF targets the uncompromising earth mother, CM targets uncompromising "foodies", with almost zero overlap.

If CM copied anybody, they "copied" Simon David, whom they promptly slew.

What in the hell are you talking about?

There is considerable overlap between the two. They both cater to fairly well off people who are more concerned about the quality of the food than the bottom line. I shop frequently at both because sometimes one is more convenient or stocks a particular item than the other one. To say there is no overlap is absurdity.

[scm53]

Originally Posted by Komeht

There is considerable overlap between the two. They both cater to fairly well off people who are more concerned about the quality of the food than the bottom line. I shop frequently at both because sometimes one is more convenient or stocks a particular item than the other one. To say there is no overlap is absurdity.

If you want organic, go to WF. If you want best quality, regardless of origin - and a MUCH broader selection as a result - go to CM. if you don't care specifically about organic, there is ZERO reason to go to WF over CM. They have NOTHING, that isn't organic, you can't find at CM - and much less.

Look, the original premise was that CM "copied" WF. If CM had been a super sized health foods store, that charge would be valid. They didn't - they opened something that just didn't exist in '92 - here, or most places.

[ITO]

Originally Posted by scm53

Your opinion presented as fact.

As someone who actually lived here, and shopped at WF before CM opened, there was no comparison. WF was, and is, an organic focused "health foods" store - with all the compromises that go with that. CM is dedicated to the highest quality, regardless of source. A basic difference that hasn't changed in the almost thirty years that CM has been opened. WF targets the uncompromising earth mother, CM targets uncompromising "foodies", with almost zero overlap.

If CM copied anybody, they "copied" Simon David, whom they promptly slew.

I thought I said that. WFM does health food, CM does gourmet food.

For years John Mackey mocked the conventional grocery stores, but HEB paid very close attention to the market and spanked him in his own market. BTW I was there at WFM when all this happened, I watched from the inside, as WFM scrambled to open the new store and as CM cherry picked the employees for better pay.

[tildahat]

Grocery stores arouse much passion on this board.

[TexasHorseLady]

Originally Posted by scm53

If you want organic, go to WF. If you want best quality, regardless of origin - and a MUCH broader selection as a result - go to CM. if you don't care specifically about organic, there is ZERO reason to go to WF over CM. They have NOTHING, that isn't organic, you can't find at CM - and much less.

Look, the original premise was that CM "copied" WF. If CM had been a super sized health foods store, that charge would be valid. They didn't - they opened something that just didn't exist in '92 - here, or most places.

Exactly. As I said, I've been shopping at Whole Foods since they opened their first store (which was here in Austin, not anywhere else, doesn't matter what they did anywhere else); in fact, I shopped at Safer Way (Mackey's precursor to Whole Foods). Whole Foods drove me away; had nothing to do with Central Market "copying" them, which they didn't; had to do with Whole Foods changing their customer-oriented focus and moving to a Big Grocery focus (copying HEB), and proceeding to stop carrying the products that made me shop there and definitely stopped caring about their customers and employees, while still pretending to be Whole Foods.

Central Market is simply the upscale foodie's branch of HEB, never pretended to be anything else. And it's, therefore, a much more pleasant place to shop, and you can get as good or better items, and a wider variety, at the same price or in many cases less.

Whole Foods turned into HEB, not vice versa. I watched it happen, and mourned as it did, having been there with WF all the way from pregnancy on.

[LongLiveCassettes]

Originally Posted by verybadgnome

I was always under the impression that Central Market was a rip off of the Whole Foods model......Further investigation finds that Whole Foods started in the 70's while Central Market started in '94 so I pretty much stand by that claim.

I wasn't referring to what inventory the store stocks, but rather the design as this whole thread has been talking about. The TJ in Alexandria is nothing like the one I saw in Houston. The former is mixed used, pedestrian-oriented, vertical, and puts the parking out of sight:

Panoramio - Photo explorer

Yeah they didn't build it for me that is why I still go to Whole Foods, Sprouts, Phoenicia, Fiesta, Fresh Plus, Costco, Chinatown, etc. They could have diversified their offerings via a different store format, but rather cannot think beyond varying the content of their stock.

HEB does some things like pricing and tailoring stock to the local demographics quite well and I give them credit for that.

I thought Central Market opened it's first store on Broadway in Alamo Heights in 1991. Well, it was a regular HEB which remodeled into a Central Market.

It didn't come to the Houston market until September of 2000, competing against Rice Epicurean across the street on Westheimer and Wesleyan.
I watched them build that one.

[scm53]

Originally Posted by LongLiveCassettes

I thought Central Market opened it's first store on Broadway in Alamo Heights in 1991.

Central Market (Texas)

The original store opened in 1994 in the Central Park Shopping Center on North Lamar in Austin, Texas, two years after its competitor Whole Foods went public.

It was not long before H-E-B Grocery Company expanded the chain to San Antonio, Fort Worth, Dallas and Houston. The chain's second store opened in 1997 in a converted H-E-B on Broadway in the San Antonio area (in the Alamo Heights city limits). Two years later, a third store was opened on South Lamar in Austin. Fort Worth and Houston were introduced to the chain for the first time in 2001, with stores on West Freeway and Westheimer, respectively.

[wehotex]

Originally Posted by LongLiveCassettes

Conservative? How so? Charles Butt is a liberal, donated thousands to Obama, and supported Mayor Castro's Pre-K tax hike.

I wouldn't go so far as to say that's he "liberal", but I do have good memories of working at an HEB many years ago. For example, he gave $50 and $100 bonuses to ALL employees to complement our extra efforts during the store's 75th anniversary (1980). He didn't have to do that. The store has also given much opportunity to all races/ethicities. Rabid conservative churchgoers also picketed his 1604 & 281 San Antonio store when they donated $300 in merchandise to a local gay and lesbian Pride Festival. Just because it's a Texas bred store doesn't make them right wing bigoted types.

[LongLiveCassettes]

Originally Posted by scm53

Central Market (Texas)

That wikipedia page is incorrect. It was 1991 when the Broadway HEB turned into Central Market. I was in 6th grade.

The Houston store opened in September 2000. I moved to Houston in August of 2000 and watched them build it.

I guess I will have to go to the Courthouse Deed Recordings section, or the Cities zoning department to find out the exact dates of both. Houston doesn't have zoning, but HCAD will probably give me the necessary information.

[scm53]

Originally Posted by LongLiveCassettes

That wikipedia page is incorrect. It was 1991 when the Broadway HEB turned into Central Market. I was in 6th grade.

If that's the case, you will have to get HEB to correct its company history as well:

1994
H-E-B opens the first Central Market in Austin, featuring a European bakery, deli with meats and cheeses from around the globe, and juice and ice cream bar.

I was shopping in that store in '94, and it was the first CM - anywhere.