Redfin and Zillow (Austin, Howe: sale, credit check, lender)

[Kosmonaut]

Originally Posted by austin-steve

Actually, if you were stupid enough to do what you suggest, you're saying that you have a "right" to be protected from being stupid. You have no such right. Whether buying a house, car or anything else.

If you had shopped around and compared homes, educated yourself either through research or having a trusted advisor, you, as a buyer, would quickly become familiar with current market activity and values and you would then come to a reasoned determination of what a particular house is worth to you personally, and make your offer based on that.

Knowing what a seller paid is a useless piece of data, as anyone who really knows how markets work can tell you. Knowing what a seller will accept is all that matters, and you find that out by making an offer, not looking at the internet.

Steve

So we need to protect our sales info so that stupid people can't find out about it, and pull out of deals when they realize what's going on? Knowing what a seller paid is a very useful piece of data. If a house goes from 300K to 400K in a two year period with nothing done to it, and it only took 200K worth of material/labor to build it, then the potential buyer would realize that the land had to double in value for the price to make sense. In what world does this NOT sound like a bubble? When the prices outstrip the commodity price of these houses, and outstrip inflation. This is going on all over this town right now.

[TexasHorseLady]

Like I said, you clearly don't understand how markets work. Nothing wrong with that, lots of people don't, but that doesn't mean that you have a God given right to other people's personal information, especially when that information, no matter what you want to believe, won't tell you what you think it will and won't protect you from anything. Any more than they have a right to yours.

[EzPeterson]

Originally Posted by Kosmonaut

So we need to protect our sales info so that stupid people can't find out about it, and pull out of deals when they realize what's going on? Knowing what a seller paid is a very useful piece of data. If a house goes from 300K to 400K in a two year period with nothing done to it, and it only took 200K worth of material/labor to build it, then the potential buyer would realize that the land had to double in value for the price to make sense. In what world does this NOT sound like a bubble? When the prices outstrip the commodity price of these houses, and outstrip inflation. This is going on all over this town right now.

You have no clue what a bubble is. When the land value is what it increasing, that is exactly what should happen. The land is the commodity - the house is not. The market is setting the value of this commodity.

I'm just curious as to how many posts and polls you're going to put up where the vast majority of responses and diametrically opposite your theory, or point you out as clueless, before you'll just shut down the hyperbole for a bit and do some thinking...

[CarnivalGal]

If the buyers have an agent, they are going to know what you paid for your house weather it's on Zillow or not. And I don't know where you live, but Austin's market is far from flat. It is one of the strongest seller's markets we've had in years.

[blueskies85]

Knowing what a seller paid is a useless piece of data

I agree with this when looking at sold data for a particular house. If they got a good deal, good for them, but it has no bearing on it's present value (unless there was some major defect which was the reason for the cheap price, and the current seller has tried to do a cheap and inadequate fix. Although hopefully that would come out in the inspection.)

Sold data in aggregate, for a neighborhood, is invaluable though. It allows the potential buyer to compare the list vs. sold ratios and see the general trend of the neighborhood prices over time. It's also useful when there are not a lot of houses for sale in a general area - accessing recently sold listings allows you to have a more comprehensive view of that area. As someone who recently purchased their first house, I don't really care if someone knows how much I paid for it. If they have an agent, which most buyers do, they know that information anyway. All in all, this type of free and open access of information allows buyers to make a more informed decision on a major purchase, which I see as a very good thing.

[austin-steve]

Originally Posted by blueskies85

...

Sold data in aggregate, for a neighborhood, is invaluable though. It allows the potential buyer to compare the list vs. sold ratios and see the general trend of the neighborhood prices over time. It's also useful when there are not a lot of houses for sale in a general area - accessing recently sold listings allows you to have a more comprehensive view of that area. As someone who recently purchased their first house, I don't really care if someone knows how much I paid for it. If they have an agent, which most buyers do, they know that information anyway. All in all, this type of free and open access of information allows buyers to make a more informed decision on a major purchase, which I see as a very good thing.

What's really interesting is that sometimes even very recent aggregate sold date can misinform a buyer and seller. We have that exact situation right now in Austin where we had a profound summer "burp" of frenzied activity, then interest rates jumped 1% and also buyer activity started to recede somewhat.

Now we have listing agents using comparable sales from April-June 2013 to price homes in August, and it's just not the same market it was even a few months ago. I know for a fact that some sales that happened in my own neighborhood would not fetch the same prices today. Same with many pockets of Austin.

Are we still seeing multiple offers? Yes, I have two on my desk right now, and a buyer offer I just sent last night. But the multiple offers are below list, not $20K above. Still strong activity, but not what we saw in April-June.

A dumb buyer with a dumb agent who isn't out there every day feeling these changing winds and small nuances will be a perfect match for an overpriced listing and will think that the statistical "information" supports the price. So it goes both ways. I'm currently pulling back on the buyer reins way more than I am using the spurs.

With regard to knowing the seller's business, I always advise buyer to focus on themselves and what they want to accomplish, not other people. What the seller paid doesn't matter. What the seller owes doesn't matter. I don't even allow the buyer to go down that trail. It's irrelevant. What I do want to know, if I can find out, is the level of seller motivation, why they are selling, if they need anything that my buyer can easily provide, such as a certain closing date or a lease back. We negotiate based on these sort of things. Never how much a seller paid or what they owe. It's not important to even know that.

Steve

[owlman]

Originally Posted by mm57553

If the buyers have an agent, they are going to know what you paid for your house weather it's on Zillow or not.

Yeah, we're not really in a non-disclosure state, more of a only-disclose-to-Realtors state

[unihills]

People thinking I got too good of a deal on my house aren't likely to be the buyers I end up selling to anyway, so why would it matter? A reasonable buyer will make an offer based on the current market compared to the house being sold, it seems simple as that.

[Spacepup]

Originally Posted by austin-steve

With regard to knowing the seller's business, I always advise buyer to focus on themselves and what they want to accomplish, not other people. What the seller paid doesn't matter. What the seller owes doesn't matter. I don't even allow the buyer to go down that trail. It's irrelevant. What I do want to know, if I can find out, is the level of seller motivation, why they are selling, if they need anything that my buyer can easily provide, such as a certain closing date or a lease back. We negotiate based on these sort of things. Never how much a seller paid or what they owe. It's not important to even know that.

Steve

It does matter, both theoretically (markets work "best" with all parties having access to all information) and realistically (as in addition to and perhaps because of) real estate being extremely expensive it is a very emotionally charged area as well).

I mean, despite what economists would like us to think people act irrationally with respect to money and assets. If you see someone bought at a "high" price (or price near current value) you can go into a deal knowing that they will be emotionally averse to selling below that price. How many people have you run into in your life that are absolutely married to the price they paid for something and won't budge because they don't want to take the emotional hit of taking "a loss"? Likewise someone who bought low may be psychologically more disposed to accept certain increments of bidding because then they can tell themselves (and others) "I made $40k!" while "I made $39,280!" doesn't have the same ring to it.

The problem comes up that that the buyer gets just as emotionally attached to certain prices and "getting a good deal"...

[austin-steve]

Originally Posted by Spacepup

It does matter, both theoretically ... and realistically

No, it doesn't. If you disagree, get into the business and make that your unique selling advantage.

The problem is that buyers/sellers make false assumptions about people based on "information". I could give countless examples of buyers/sellers overthinking and trying to make decisions based on what they think the other party's situation is. Even Googling people, saying "I'll bet they make over $100K", or "I'll bet they really need to sell because Dell is going to lay off", and other completely asinine conjuncture.

And I always say, "just focus on yourself and what you want and need in a home. Stop trying to figure out the seller (or buyer) because #1 it's creepy and #2 it does not matter".

By the way, I say the same thing when buyers want to know a seller utility bills. It doesn't matter. It's a 2 story production home built in 1985 with no trees, expect high bills. We don't care what the seller's bills were. What if they were low? What does that mean? Nothing. What if they were high? It means nothing, because it's partial data without context.

Steve