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Old 12-26-2013, 12:19 PM
 
Location: Central Texas
20,958 posts, read 45,272,520 times
Reputation: 24738

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Nope, I sure don't. I live north of it, out in the country, and I work from there on down to Austin, and I also own a house in Barton Hills where we lived for some years.

You're engaging in wishful thinking as far as your desired behavior modification is concerned, it seems. There may be ways to get people to do what you desire, though I'm dubious after 60-odd years of experience with and observation of human nature, but simply tolling roads isn't going to do it, dating from the first time I watched a toll road go in and continuing up to today. That from about 45 years of experience with and observation of human nature as it pertains to toll roads in various cities, actually. I've never seen a toll road go in and people start carpooling and trip consolidation.
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Old 12-26-2013, 12:24 PM
 
480 posts, read 527,192 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scm53 View Post
In reality, only one - 395. 66 is carpool limited, and no trucks. Nothing on the MD side from outside the Beltway into DC (except 295 which is really just an extension of 395, mainly for VA commuters across the WW Bridge.)
The suitland parkway / route 4 and US 50 are both heavily used highways into DC, though they are not true freeways for their entirety. Not trying to turn this into a DC forum and I definitely agree with your rebuttal, especially regarding the "multiple" and "transport" portions...haha. They transport your car in much the same manner a parking lot transports it, maybe slower.
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Old 12-26-2013, 12:27 PM
 
7,742 posts, read 15,077,253 times
Reputation: 4295
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasHorseLady View Post
Nope, I sure don't. I live north of it, out in the country, and I work from there on down to Austin, and I also own a house in Barton Hills where we lived for some years.

You're engaging in wishful thinking as far as your desired behavior modification is concerned, it seems. There may be ways to get people to do what you desire, though I'm dubious after 60-odd years of experience with and observation of human nature, but simply tolling roads isn't going to do it, dating from the first time I watched a toll road go in and continuing up to today. That from about 45 years of experience with and observation of human nature as it pertains to toll roads in various cities, actually. I've never seen a toll road go in and people start carpooling and trip consolidation.
because the tolls arent high enough. Having $10 tolls during peak times (or whatever is necessary to reduce traffic) will reduce traffic. Tolls do get people to spread out their driving times, carpool etc.
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Old 12-26-2013, 12:28 PM
 
Location: Austin, TX
12,059 posts, read 13,827,873 times
Reputation: 7256
I think naturally it would bring development to the corridor. But that is what the plan is after all. The original plan for SH-130 was to shift development in Austin towards that corridor. It's more sustainable to live out east than out west. The east is flat, the land is thick soil and clay, easier to dig up and put foundations on for buildings. Out west they have to use dynamite and it's difficult to develop the hillsides.
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Old 12-26-2013, 12:36 PM
 
102 posts, read 156,105 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasHorseLady View Post
There may be ways to get people to do what you desire, though I'm dubious after 60-odd years of experience with and observation of human nature, but simply tolling roads isn't going to do it.
Tolls have done a GREAT job of keeping cars off SH130, haven't they?
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Old 12-26-2013, 12:37 PM
 
Location: Central Texas
20,958 posts, read 45,272,520 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cBach View Post
I think naturally it would bring development to the corridor. But that is what the plan is after all. The original plan for SH-130 was to shift development in Austin towards that corridor. It's more sustainable to live out east than out west. The east is flat, the land is thick soil and clay, easier to dig up and put foundations on for buildings. Out west they have to use dynamite and it's difficult to develop the hillsides.
And, until we run out of farmland because we're building on it for the reasons given, and then run out of food, all will be hunky dory!

But, yes, the whole idea originally was to shift development east.
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Old 12-26-2013, 02:09 PM
 
Location: Austin, TX
16,787 posts, read 48,924,530 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cBach View Post
I think naturally it would bring development to the corridor. But that is what the plan is after all. The original plan for SH-130 was to shift development in Austin towards that corridor. It's more sustainable to live out east than out west. The east is flat, the land is thick soil and clay, easier to dig up and put foundations on for buildings. Out west they have to use dynamite and it's difficult to develop the hillsides.
How is building out East more sustainable?

I'm sorry, but you don't know much about building foundations if you think the highly expansive clay soil East of Austin is easier to build on. Foundations in that area have to be much deeper and much more heavily reinforced in order to withstand the forces from the clay soil movement. They probably cost at least twice the cost of building a foundation on the limestone ledges in West Austin.
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Old 12-26-2013, 02:18 PM
 
Location: Austin, TX
16,787 posts, read 48,924,530 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gpurcell View Post
Link is bad. Full article is available on their Facebook page:
https://www.facebook.com/MobilityAuthority

I take issue with this, though:

"86 percent of all trips on I-35 are locally generated"

The 14 percent that aren't are going to be heavily slanted towards semis and large tractor trailers have a LOT more effect on a a transportation system than a simple car. If 130 could divert, say, 5 to 10 percent of trips and those trips are large trucks I don't see how that couldn't be beneficial.
Not necessarily, most of that truck traffic is coming into Austin to serve the needs of the metroplex. What evidence do you have that any significant proportion of the truck traffic in IH-35 is just passing through Austin? Show me some statistics.

There are very few manufacturing centers located South of Austin so there is very little outward bound manufacturing shipping going North. There is probably more going South to San Antonio to feed it's consumption of goods but there are several other major routes into San Antonio, so probably only a small proportion of the SA bound goods are passing through Austin.

With 86 percent of all trips being generated locally, would it not make far more sense to concentrate on reducing that 86 percent of the traffic, rather than spend millions on trying to reduce only 14 percent of the traffic?

We need to do more to encourage people to live close to where they work, and work close to where they live. That will be a far more productive path to follow to solve our problems.
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Old 12-26-2013, 03:00 PM
 
Location: The People's Republic of Austin
5,184 posts, read 7,258,798 times
Reputation: 2575
Quote:
Originally Posted by gpurcell View Post
Link is bad. Full article is available on their Facebook page:
https://www.facebook.com/MobilityAuthority

I take issue with this, though:

"86 percent of all trips on I-35 are locally generated"

The 14 percent that aren't are going to be heavily slanted towards semis and large tractor trailers have a LOT more effect on a a transportation system than a simple car. If 130 could divert, say, 5 to 10 percent of trips and those trips are large trucks I don't see how that couldn't be beneficial.
Page 60 of the TTI study says "much of the IH 35 truck traffic has an origin or destination or both near the corridor".

Don't know what "much" means, but I bet the amount of through tractor trailer traffic is lower than you might think.
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Old 12-26-2013, 04:55 PM
 
Location: Austin, TX
12,059 posts, read 13,827,873 times
Reputation: 7256
Quote:
Originally Posted by CptnRn View Post
There are very few manufacturing centers located South of Austin so there is very little outward bound manufacturing shipping going North. There is probably more going South to San Antonio to feed it's consumption of goods but there are several other major routes into San Antonio, so probably only a small proportion of the SA bound goods are passing through Austin.
.
There is not a lot of manufacturing, but San Antonio is a distribution hub of South Texas. There are literally hundreds of warehouses east of I-35 northeast of downtown. They go on for miles, distribution centers for tons of companies.
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