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Old 03-02-2014, 01:53 PM
 
Location: The People's Republic of Austin
5,184 posts, read 7,238,794 times
Reputation: 2575

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Quote:
Originally Posted by verybadgnome View Post
Transit needs density to be efficient (and it is coming).
The HPNA begs to differ.
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Old 03-02-2014, 03:04 PM
 
Location: Holly Neighborhood, Austin, Texas
3,982 posts, read 6,694,541 times
Reputation: 2882
Quote:
Originally Posted by scm53 View Post
The HPNA begs to differ.
Well they are wrong. Catchment areas are limited in size therefore if you increase the population within them you increase the number of potential riders. This is why good planning does not very many single family homes around rail transit stops.

This is not to say you can't do transit, just that it won't give you nearly as big a bang for your buck. When cost effectiveness doesn't materialize them people start to complain.
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Old 03-02-2014, 03:08 PM
 
Location: Holly Neighborhood, Austin, Texas
3,982 posts, read 6,694,541 times
Reputation: 2882
Quote:
Originally Posted by dv1033 View Post
I know, their Austin-tude would never allow it......
No it is just there are better examples to follow.....Like most Canadian cities which on average have twice the transit ridership as US ones. And yes Dallas is a much better example to follow than Houston.
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Old 03-02-2014, 03:13 PM
 
Location: Holly Neighborhood, Austin, Texas
3,982 posts, read 6,694,541 times
Reputation: 2882
Quote:
Originally Posted by ppp38 View Post
I agree with you but you will find very Austinites, willing to follow the example that Houston has set.
Yes, lovely Houston where pedestrians know who comes last:
Attached Thumbnails
Light Rail Hate in Austin- please explain-img_1511.jpg  
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Old 03-02-2014, 05:37 PM
 
Location: Maui County, HI
4,131 posts, read 7,404,606 times
Reputation: 3391
Quote:
Originally Posted by dv1033 View Post
Having lots of rail doesn't make it effective, just look at DART's ridership per mile. Austin's ridership per mile is abysmal.

Coming from Houston, I think Austin would do well to follow it's model over DFW. Park&Ride commuter buses provide express service from outlying areas to dense employment centers while light rail serves as the backbone for the core and last mile for commuters.
Ridership per mile is a BS purely self-congratulatory statistic. It doesn't reflect the usefulness of the rail system to actual commuters. Of course if you have a single line in the densest part of the city it will have a high ridership per mile number... And what about the people who don't live along that stubby 8 mile line?
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Old 03-03-2014, 08:23 AM
 
2,602 posts, read 2,960,248 times
Reputation: 997
Quote:
Originally Posted by scm53 View Post
It carries fewer passengers than commuter buses, at a higher per passenger trip cost.
Where's your support for this claim? I've never seen per-passenger subsidies called out for specific routes, only for bus service as a whole.
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Old 03-03-2014, 08:28 AM
 
2,602 posts, read 2,960,248 times
Reputation: 997
Quote:
Originally Posted by scm53 View Post
Actually, once the Mopac HOT lanes get finished - even w/o the proposed 183 ones - the express bus would be even faster than Metro Rail.
The Mopac toll lanes will only keep the buses moving at 45 mph
'MoPacalypse' begins tonight - Austin Business Journal

No faster than the train. (not including congestion on 183, congestion _getting_ to 183, and most of all, congestion getting through downtown to/from Mopac).
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Old 03-03-2014, 08:38 AM
 
Location: The People's Republic of Austin
5,184 posts, read 7,238,794 times
Reputation: 2575
Quote:
Originally Posted by Novacek View Post
The Mopac toll lanes will only keep the buses moving at 45 mph
'MoPacalypse' begins tonight - Austin Business Journal

No faster than the train. (not including congestion on 183, congestion _getting_ to 183, and most of all, congestion getting through downtown to/from Mopac).
The speed over the ground is immaterial. The current Metro Express buses face the same congestion on both ends, slower travel on Mopac, and still are competitive for total travel time with Metro Rail - at a lower per passenger operating cost, and almost no capital cost (comparatively). HOT lanes on 183 and Mopac will only move the needle more towards bus.

Nice try at obfuscating, however. Even you have to admit that 45 on the HOT lanes will be faster than the current speed on Mopac, so I don't know what your point is.
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Old 03-03-2014, 08:46 AM
 
2,602 posts, read 2,960,248 times
Reputation: 997
Quote:
Originally Posted by ITO View Post
I think the arrogance of telling people they will just have to give up a lane on Lamar, because they chose to live is sprawlberg was a little over the top.
Actually, it was _3 lanes_ of Lamar.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ITO View Post
This was put to a vote as a bond issue and overwhelmingly voted down. Then CapMetro doing what they seem to do best, they proceeded on with the project without the bonds and with their own reserves, which happened to be pretty sizable since that .25% of the 8.25% of our sales tax is theirs.
I think you're confused here.

1. Light rail was voted down.
2. Years later, a different vote for the red line came up. (they didn't "proceed on with the project")
3. CapMetro gets 1% of sales tax, not .25%. (.25% is the sales tax they would have got give back for not doing rail).



Quote:
Originally Posted by ITO View Post
It was brought up over and over prior to the vote and during the first roll out, what about a light rail route from the airport to downtown. The response I personally got at an open meeting was that was in the plans but would be the last part of the project and 25 years out. Which really seemed odd to me because if you really wanted to sell this idea and how it worked, then what better way than smooth transportation to and from the airport? Then once you have the working well and show everyone what light rail can by you can expand on it with public support, but nope that is the last thing CapMetro wants to do. But hey they know best right?
Light rail to the airport would be a _horrible_ first segment.

It just wouldn't have the ridership (that's an understatement). ABIA is just now hitting 10 Million passengers per year. If _every single passenger_ was coming to/from downtown, then you might have the ridership to support the line, maybe. Assuming no one ever flies out of Bergstrom from Bastrop, or North Austin, or South Austin, or West Austin, or Round Rock , or Pflugerville, or Manor...

Not to mention the fact that probably half the ridership would be visitors (so non-tax-payers).

Quote:
Originally Posted by ITO View Post
What we have here is the clusterfork called CapMetro that built light rail on existing tracks
No, they didn't. They built _commuter rail_ on existing tracks, which is a pretty common practice.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ITO View Post
I live near a terminal in Cedar Park,
If you live in Cedar Park, you have no leg to stand on complaining about CapMetro not serving you. Get your city to rejoin CapMetro and then maybe you have a complaint.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ITO View Post
How about folks in South Austin who don’t live anywhere near it, what does it do for them?
Using that logic, _nothing_ would ever get built. Transit in south Austin doesn't serve north Austin, can't build it. Transit in north Austin doesn't serve South Austin, can't build it. The solution is to (gradually) add transit on those other locations as well.
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Old 03-03-2014, 08:52 AM
 
2,602 posts, read 2,960,248 times
Reputation: 997
Quote:
Originally Posted by scm53 View Post
The speed over the ground is immaterial. The current Metro Express buses face the same congestion on both ends, slower travel on Mopac, and still are competitive for total travel time with Metro Rail - at a lower per passenger operating cost, and almost no capital cost (comparatively). HOT lanes on 183 and Mopac will only move the needle more towards bus.

Nice try at obfuscating, however. Even you have to admit that 45 on the HOT lanes will be faster than the current speed on Mopac, so I don't know what your point is.
By competitive, you mean slower.
And by the time the mopac lanes are finished, the metrorail improvements will be in place (speeding up metrorail), so it'll still be slower.

And the buses will only hit downtown, and won't hit any intermediate stop. Once the rail has more capacity (passing tracks) you _could_ run an express route from Leander direct to downtown and be even faster. Long term maybe they'll do that, if there's enough demand.
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