changes on south congress. (Austin, Pflugerville: apartment complex, insurance, hotels)

[sojourner77]

Originally Posted by Komeht

I was responding to what you said about I-35 and BWB

You get crappy development at freeway intersections for a reason - people hate being there.


In 20, 30 50 years from now - it'll look about the same as long as it's bound by a massive freeway interchange on two sides. That land is effectively condemned.

The walkability of St. Elmo (let's not jump the gun here - it's not very walkable today) will not extend down a freeway or across a industrial zone only to locate itself in one of the most inhospitable and disconnected places in the City of Austin.

There isn't going to be any miraculous development there.

You are completely missing/contorting what I'm trying to say. I can't even quote your previous post because you butchered my previous post and rolled it into an incoherent response.

How does proximity to a freeway "condemn" a site?

[Komeht]

Originally Posted by austin-steve

You can throw a rock from IH35 into Mueller. It's pretty close, granted, with a commercial buffer. You still can't really leave or arrive without crossing a freeway, unless coming up from east Austin.

Not sure what you're getting at - one small segment of Mueller abuts I-35. And, to my point exactly, what's located there? Big Box auto oriented development. Freeways condemn land to crappy uses.

Everything else in Mueller is well off the freeway, and, also that's were all the walkability and density are going. That isn't by accident, btw, it's built into the master plan.

As for the statement about having to cross a freeway coming for going to central Austin, this is absolutely true. Same could be said for Tarrytown and Mopac on the west-side. Not sure what point you're making. Neither Mueller nor Tarrytown are bound or constrained by the intersection of two freeways and the desirable parts in each case are well off the freeway.

Freeways in urban areas condemn land, they don't create development opportunities (low intensity strip clubs, adult book stores, lingerie shops, tattoo parlors, payday lenders, car lots being the exceptions).

Our real economic development occurs on Austin's local streets. That's where you'll find the major investments and where people congregate.

[Komeht]

Originally Posted by sojourner77

You are completely missing/contorting what I'm trying to say.

I'm using your direct quotes. So if I'm missing or contorting it you aren't saying what you mean very well. Try again.

[sojourner77]

Originally Posted by Komeht

I'm using your direct quotes. So if I'm missing or contorting it you aren't saying what you mean very well. Try again.

You fixed your previous post. When I first tried to quote it, it came out as nonsense. My comments showed up as your comments, and your comments showed up as mine, and there were dangling quotes from me that you didn't credit. You fixed it, then replied to me with this comment ^^^ as if I am stupid.

[sojourner77]

Originally Posted by Komeht

Our real economic development occurs on Austin's local streets. That's where you'll find the major investments and where people congregate.

Like South Congress and St. Elmo - which will be the main entrance to St. Elmo's market.

The access road for this entire corner of the interchange could and should be used for vehicular access - like you would have at a stadium, like Disch-Falk or DKR. The walkable area would be on the residential side - like St. Elmo or South Congress. You're very hung up on this *everyone-is-only-going-to-be-walking-on-access-road* issue for some reason.

[Komeht]

Originally Posted by sojourner77

Like South Congress and St. Elmo - which will be the main entrance to St. Elmo's market.

The access road for this entire corner of the interchange could and should be used for vehicular access - like you would have at a stadium, like Disch-Falk or DKR. The walkable area would be on the residential side - like St. Elmo or South Congress. You're very hung up on this *everyone-is-only-going-to-be-walking-on-access-road* issue for some reason.

Let's try this again shall we?

I wasn't responding to St. Elmos and Congress - which are, in fact, city streets. I was responding to this [mod cut]statement :

"Now if they could redevelop the adjacent SW corner of I-35/Ben White, the results could be amazing. The location is a natural transportation hub that's big enough to fit an MLS stadium."

Your words, not mine. If you meant something different, all you need to do is say - whoops, not what I meant. And we can all move on.

[sojourner77]

The developer is trying to recruit music oriented companies to open offices at St. Elmo's Market. This is a good fit, and should help Austin maintain it's musical roots.

'Mini Music Row' planned for St. Elmo's South Austin development - Austin Business Journal

[SmartGXL]

Originally Posted by Komeht

Creating a sense of place is more art than science, and it's defintiely not plug and play. Things that work in one area might be a total failure in another. But you can pretty much take to the bank that the intersection of two freeways is not an area that will see anything but low intensity crappy development because noisy smelly freeways are not attractive areas for people to be. So you get strip malls and strip clubs, gas stations, pay day loans, car lots and other low rent places. And it will never be a people magnate.

Well designed streets, avenues and boulevards with a mix of business, uses, activities that create the kind of place people want to stay and linger in will out perform by any metric a 100:1 land wedged between two major freeways.

Exactly!

Over the years living here in TX, what I have noticed is that Texas developers (and the city councils) do not seem to understand how "livable, urban walkable neighborhoods" are supposed to work, or be developed. They always seem to want to build a faux, ticky-tacky "neighborhood" in the middle of a parking lot (aka The Domain) and even tho the domain has been a success, its not a place I would ever want to live.

The best way to build neighborhoods, is to follow the format of pre-WW2 neighborhoods where businesses fronted the street/sidewalk and parking is available in the rear, and build these new developments that organically extend existing walkable environments.

[sojourner77]

Originally Posted by SmartGXL

The best way to build neighborhoods, is to follow the format of pre-WW2 neighborhoods where businesses fronted the street/sidewalk and parking is available in the rear, and build these new developments that organically extend existing walkable environments.

^^^Which they just might do with this development. Let's see some actual schematic plans first, before we start condemning it.

[SmartGXL]

Originally Posted by borgerboy

the east congress neighborhood does not want the change. the contact team you reference is mostly made of west congress residents. the "east" group claims the "west" group controls the team. they claim that they can't make the meetings because they are too busy working. anyway that's what they said last night. they think their interests are so different from the west's group that they are going to break off and form their own contact team. well good luck with that, but where do we split south congress avenue? i guess we can have bakeries and breweries on the west side and pawn shop and check cashing services on the east side.

Here is what I will say about the neighborhood group east of Congress. This sounds like the typical thing that goes in Chicago whenever an area is "threatened" by improvement. Local residents of free public housing, who do not own their units, or any land in the area, but who have received decades of free rent, begin to gripe and complain that a development will ruin their "peaceful wonderful community", and that gentrification (aka revitalization) is going to ruin them and they will be homeless (or some other argument, that they will be damaged by improvements). Usually these protests are led by Social Justice Warrior types, who somehow see "injustice" in every area of life, and for some reason want these types of neighborhoods to be permanent snapshots in time, never changing, never improving. Its very odd. But this debate seems to be following the same "model" as is used in Chicago, any time someone wants to improve an area.