Prop 1 Open Thread (Houston, Dallas, Austin: cost of, water bill, vehicles)

[Novacek]

Originally Posted by scm53

I dunno. Since you are the one making the argument, you tell us. Pretty sure it isn't 40% in the last six years of low inflation, but you can look it up since it is your point.

That $283M includes tens of millions in grant money for implementing the MetroRapid. If you compare operating expenses between the two years, it's $207M to 169M.

So that's really 22%.


Drop off 10% for inflation
CPI Inflation Calculator

And you're at 12%. Operating expenses aren't even keeping up with population increases in an Austin that's losing density, no wonder they're losing passengers (again, not even taking into account that they _doubled_ ticket prices).

Oh, and where are you getting a 2014 ridership of 33M? The 2014 budget is over 35M
https://www.capmetro.org/uploadedFil...4%20Budget.pdf

[tom331]

Austin city budget was passing $1.0 Billion several years after I moving to Austin. It was a big news then. Now, the city buget is about $3.5 Billion. The population has not increased 350%, the inflation is reasonable. The city spending is out of control. I don't see any public swimming pools being built in last twenty years. Other than maintain the roads, I don't see any new road being contructed by the city. The new water plant is using the bond money to be built. I really could not tell where the city put the money to.

Capital Metro is a job. They paid UT to get the student bus so that they could use the number to inflate the ridership of the bus.

[Novacek]

Originally Posted by tom331

The new water plant is using the bond money to be built. I really could not tell where the city put the money to.

Uh, how do you think bond money gets paid off? By money in the budget.

[scm53]

Originally Posted by Novacek

I don't know why it wasn't submitted to the FTA. My personal guess, it somehow ran afoul of buy-American provisions or the fact that the FRA wouldn't give them the waiver to work with the FTA (or the administration at the time being anti-rail?).

Sorry to interrupt your guessing with some facts:

Capital Metro did not seek Federal money because they knew they'd not get much. The FTA was unlikely to rate this commuter rail plan very highly - even Cap Metro's own figures show a very small number of people riding, because this piece-of-crap Krusee debacle doesn't actually go anywhere people want to go,

And if you don't like Mr. Dahmus, how about the Chronicle:

(Conversely, the original Red Line, which had far lower ridership and -- even though it was on existing rail right of way -- only marginally lower projected costs, was headed, Cap Met insiders say, for a "not recommended" kiss-of-death rating, which is why the transit authority switched tracks at the 11th hour.)

Originally Posted by Novacek

It's lower than Minneapolis, which is $20.00 /rider.

The Seattle Sounder was $35 per rider in 2004 ( I couldn't find a more recent value in quick googling, I'm assuming its dropped and is now in about the same range as CapMetro's)

Just because you can find two - try similarly sized commuter rail systems on for size: UTA (Salt Lake) - $10.52. TRE (Dallas) - 11.49. Coaster (San Diego) - $10.84. Capitol Corridor (CA) - $7.50 And last, but not least - Sounder (Seattle) - $13.11. So yes - at almost $17/trip, Metro Rail is among the most heavily subsidized commuter rail systems in the country - because it was put in a bad place. Driven by what was possible, vice what would actually work.

[Novacek]

Originally Posted by scm53

Sorry to interrupt your guessing with some facts:

Uh, where are the "facts" on that page? Just unsourced assertions.

Originally Posted by scm53

And if you don't like Mr. Dahmus, how about the Chronicle:

Did you even read your own source? That's not talking about the Metrorail commuter line at all. It's talking about electrified urban/light rail.

[Novacek]

Originally Posted by scm53

Just because you can find two - try similarly sized commuter rail systems on for size: UTA (Salt Lake) - $10.52. TRE (Dallas) - 11.49. Coaster (San Diego) - $10.84. Capitol Corridor (CA) - $7.50 And last, but not least - Sounder (Seattle) - $13.11. So yes - at almost $17/trip, Metro Rail is among the most heavily subsidized commuter rail systems in the country - because it was put in a bad place. Driven by what was possible, vice what would actually work.

add on:
NM Rail Runner: $18

http://www.soundtransit.org/Document...omparisons.pdf


And yes, 11 years later, Sounder is down to $13. As will the red line with continued passenger growth. It's only been operating 4 years.
TRE: _18 years_
Coaster: _19 years_
UTA: 6 years
Capitol Corridor: _23 years_

[scm53]

Originally Posted by Novacek

Uh, where are the "facts" on that page? Just unsourced assertions.

"Unsourced assertions" by a member of the Austin Urban Transportation Commission during the time in question.

Originally Posted by Novacek

Did you even read your own source? That's not talking about the Metrorail commuter line at all. It's talking about electrified urban/light rail.

What part of

Capital Metro did not seek Federal money because they knew they'd not get much. The FTA was unlikely to rate this commuter rail plan very highly - even Cap Metro's own figures show a very small number of people riding,

didn't you get? More "fictitious content"?

[Novacek]

Originally Posted by scm53

What part of

didn't you get? More "fictitious content"?

The Austin Chronicle story, which you didn't link,
http://www.austinchronicle.com/news/2000-02-25/76008/
was not referring to the CapMetro Red Line commuter rail.

Its was referring to the planning of the electrified light rail system before the 2000 vote.

[Novacek]

Originally Posted by scm53

"Unsourced assertions" by a member of the Austin Urban Transportation Commission during the time in question.

Yes. Since the CapMetro Red Line commuter rail wasn't a city project.

[scm53]

Originally Posted by Novacek

As will the red line with continued passenger growth. It's only been operating 4 years.

Cheeky, coming from someone so quick to label apostasy as "unsourced assertions",

Funny how you gloss right over the fact that those cheaper systems are all hauled train sets. There is no way Metro Rail's DMUs will ever get the efficiencies of those other commuter rail systems - however long you want to wait. It isn't about the time.