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Old 10-21-2014, 09:29 AM
 
3,427 posts, read 4,423,490 times
Reputation: 3633

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Novacek View Post
Why should you expect everyone else to pay the 10s to 100s of billions of other people's money that have gone into the road system? So that you can take your lazy butt in your car.
The roads are also used for all sorts of transportation including groceries, mail, goods. How do you think the raw materials and inventory are delivered to your "walkable" hipster bar, coffee shop, and bookstore? Not by bicycle. (Even if it on bicycle it would be by bicycles using roads)

You also seem to forget that the roads are used by public transit (e.g., buses) which DON'T pay for them.

The people that drive on the road are paying for the roads in multiple ways - through federal and state taxes, through fuel tax, through transportation charges for delivery of items, through increased prices paid to other entities that pay taxes. Your RAIL TAX won't provide any benefit to those paying for the roads or those utilizing the roads. Instead your RAIL TAX will just increase cost of living for City of Austin residents 99.9+% of whom will receive zero benefit.

 
Old 10-21-2014, 09:39 AM
 
2,602 posts, read 2,966,051 times
Reputation: 997
Quote:
Originally Posted by IC_deLight View Post
Okay, $5K allowance for insurance and gas (after all you want the taxpayers to subsidize the operating costs of the train too).
And now it still sits in the driveway, because there's no road to drive on.

It's still apples to oranges, vehicles vs. total system.


Quote:
Originally Posted by IC_deLight View Post
Not that I promote such a program - I just promote exposing the silliness of your claims.
I'm exposing the silliness of taking the cost of an entire system and applying it to vehicles (vehicles which will be worn out and need replacing in like 10 years, unlike rail vehicles which have lifetimes measured in decades. )
 
Old 10-21-2014, 09:51 AM
 
Location: Austin TX
11,027 posts, read 6,464,926 times
Reputation: 13259
Quote:
Originally Posted by Novacek View Post
How is that total dishonesty? Compared to the total tax burden, or the total cost of living in Austin, the cost of the rail is pretty trivial.

The claim was "much higher cost", which is blatantly false.
It's extremely dishonest to continue touting your imaginary figures of proposed tax costs to homeowners and it's extremely arrogant to suggest that simply cutting out a few frivolous expenses that YOU have appropriated upon homeowners is a rational and appropriate plan for tens of thousands of home-owning families to follow. There has been significant number-crunching throughout this thread that accurately contradicts your repeated lowball figures. Let's do some more:

The actual tax cost will range much much higher than your oft-repeated figure of ten dollars per homeowner per month. A family in a 350K home is looking at approximately $380 a year in tax increases. That's almost $32.00 a month. The further you move from East Austin, the higher most home prices are. You continue to gloss over the fact that 100K properties (which you flippantly continue to base your ten dollars a month tax increase on) are no longer the norm for most of Austin and have not been for quite some time.

In a nutshell, you have spent months and hundreds of posts here proposing that homeowners outside East Austin who are already suffering from severe gridlock will obtain value somehow from paying to fund a partial portion of a transit system that offers them zero relief from their current commute woes. You have exaggerated actual costs and simplified the lifestyles of hundreds of thousands of residents to match your own in an effort to bolster your argument.

I don't believe there's anything left for me to say about how I feel about your efforts here. I think you are a paid shill making fraudulent statements on behalf of your employer and I think Prop One stinks to high hell.

That is all.
 
Old 10-21-2014, 10:01 AM
 
2,602 posts, read 2,966,051 times
Reputation: 997
Quote:
Originally Posted by IC_deLight View Post
Instead your RAIL TAX will just increase cost of living for City of Austin residents 99.9+% of whom will receive zero benefit.
1. Improved air quality: benefit. (Austin is nearly in non-attainment status)
2. option to commute downtown when half of I35 is torn up for construction: benefit
3. increased property taxes to the CoA from increased valuations of VMU development along the line: benefit
4. buses moved off of existing bridges across the river (the major choke point of Austin transportation): benefit
5. The start of a rail system that can be expanded to many other areas of the city: benefit
6. new bike/pedestrian connectivity across the river on the new bridge: benefit
 
Old 10-21-2014, 10:10 AM
 
2,602 posts, read 2,966,051 times
Reputation: 997
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nor Cal Wahine View Post
A family in a 350K home is looking at approximately $380 a year in tax increases. That's almost $32.00 a month.
And that family is _far_ above average in Austin.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nor Cal Wahine View Post
The further you move from East Austin, the higher most home prices are. You continue to gloss over the fact that 100K properties (which you flippantly continue to base your ten dollars a month tax increase on)
No, I base ten dollars a month on the RAIL TAX portion being ~120 on a 200k home.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nor Cal Wahine View Post
are no longer the norm for most of Austin and have not been for quite some time.
And you continue to gloss over the fact that a huge portion of Austinites _rent_. The "norm" in Austin is to be living in a unit assessed at _less_ than 200k.
 
Old 10-21-2014, 10:12 AM
 
2,602 posts, read 2,966,051 times
Reputation: 997
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nor Cal Wahine View Post
I don't believe there's anything left for me to say about how I feel about your efforts here. I think you are a paid shill making fraudulent statements on behalf of your employer and I think Prop One stinks to high hell.
And I think you're a paid shill on the part of the big money donors behind the anti-prop 1 efforts.

See how that works?

Or do you want to address the actual facts?
 
Old 10-21-2014, 10:26 AM
 
1,430 posts, read 2,365,825 times
Reputation: 832
Quote:
Originally Posted by Novacek View Post
1. Improved air quality: benefit. (Austin is nearly in non-attainment status)
2. option to commute downtown when half of I35 is torn up for construction: benefit
3. increased property taxes to the CoA from increased valuations of VMU development along the line: benefit
4. buses moved off of existing bridges across the river (the major choke point of Austin transportation): benefit
5. The start of a rail system that can be expanded to many other areas of the city: benefit
6. new bike/pedestrian connectivity across the river on the new bridge: benefit
1. Will have no measurable effect.
2. This rail line does absolutely zero for commuters on I-35.
3. VMU developers will use Texas' non-disclosure laws to skirt property taxes.
4. Shifting buses to the bridge will result in additional traffic snarls as they converge on a single point, both north and south
6. A trivial benefit.
 
Old 10-21-2014, 10:29 AM
 
1,430 posts, read 2,365,825 times
Reputation: 832
Quote:
Originally Posted by Novacek View Post
No, I base ten dollars a month on the RAIL TAX portion being ~120 on a 200k home.



And you continue to gloss over the fact that a huge portion of Austinites _rent_. The "norm" in Austin is to be living in a unit assessed at _less_ than 200k.

Unit is not equal to "home".
Renters don't pay property taxes.
Using renter-occupied value to lowball the cost of this thing is just a sterling example of your inherent dishonesty.
 
Old 10-21-2014, 10:30 AM
 
2,602 posts, read 2,966,051 times
Reputation: 997
Quote:
Originally Posted by gpurcell View Post
4. Shifting buses to the bridge will result in additional traffic snarls as they converge on a single point, both north and south

Uh, there's no shifting. Routes formerly running on buses, which had to cross on an existing bridge, will not exist anymore. Freeing up bridge capacity.
 
Old 10-21-2014, 10:32 AM
 
2,602 posts, read 2,966,051 times
Reputation: 997
Quote:
Originally Posted by gpurcell View Post
Unit is not equal to "home".
So you're telling the 40% of austinites who rent that they don't have a home?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gpurcell View Post
Renters don't pay property taxes.
Sure they do. They don't write the check directly, but they pay it as part of their rent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gpurcell View Post
Using renter-occupied value to lowball the cost of this thing is just a sterling example of your inherent dishonesty.
So renters don't matter? Not only do they not have a home, they're not part of Austin and don't have a voice in the process?
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