How to handle lawbreaking cyclists (Houston, San Antonio: sales, cars, bike)

[LiveUrban]

Many people here are saying that bicyclists need to be licensed and taxed because they need to "pay their fair share of using the road".

Well, turns out drivers technically aren't paying their fair share either: UPDATED: Drivers Cover Just 51 Percent of U.S. Road Spending | Streetsblog USA

Oh, and not to mention pedestrians, they aren't paying their fair share for the sidewalks we build them!! Nor are the parents who have children fully paying for public schools! People who don't have children are subsidizing your child's education! The nerve! /sarcasm

[Eastcoasting]

Originally Posted by LiveUrban

Many people here are saying that bicyclists need to be licensed and taxed because they need to "pay their fair share of using the road".

Well, turns out drivers technically aren't paying their fair share either: UPDATED: Drivers Cover Just 51 Percent of U.S. Road Spending | Streetsblog USA

Oh, and not to mention pedestrians, they aren't paying their fair share for the sidewalks we build them!! Nor are the parents who have children fully paying for public schools! People who don't have children are subsidizing your child's education! The nerve! /sarcasm

Are they saying that?

Really?

Plating and insurance would be about accountability in case some twit collides with me as I exit my petrol saloon and breaks my monocle.

[Komeht]

Originally Posted by LiveUrban

Many people here are saying that bicyclists need to be licensed and taxed because they need to "pay their fair share of using the road".

Well, turns out drivers technically aren't paying their fair share either: UPDATED: Drivers Cover Just 51 Percent of U.S. Road Spending | Streetsblog USA

Oh, and not to mention pedestrians, they aren't paying their fair share for the sidewalks we build them!! Nor are the parents who have children fully paying for public schools! People who don't have children are subsidizing your child's education! The nerve! /sarcasm

That's just for Federal/State highways.

City streets - 100% paid for by city out of general fund.

[TexasHorseLady]

Originally Posted by LiveUrban
Many people here are saying that bicyclists need to be licensed and taxed because they need to "pay their fair share of using the road".

Well, turns out drivers technically aren't paying their fair share either: UPDATED: Drivers Cover Just 51 Percent of U.S. Road Spending | Streetsblog USA

Oh, and not to mention pedestrians, they aren't paying their fair share for the sidewalks we build them!! Nor are the parents who have children fully paying for public schools! People who don't have children are subsidizing your child's education! The nerve! /sarcasm

Originally Posted by Eastcoasting

Are they saying that?

Really?

Plating and insurance would be about accountability in case some twit collides with me as I exit my petrol saloon and breaks my monocle.

Yeah, I was wondering about that myself - I don't recall seeing anyone saying that. Sharing responsibility, yes (hard as that is for some to imagine).

I specifically said that I didn't care if the fee for a bicycle license was $5/year or $5/five years, as long as the bicycle is identifiable just like cars and motorcycles (with their teeny tiny plates, too) are.

I don't recall anyone else here putting forward that argument above regarding paying their fair share.

[JWUC]

my $.02. I don't think a lot of rules and laws are going to change anything. It's an attitude shift. Austin has become a city of "F#@k you. It's all about me."

I'm in the left hand lane and want to exit 183 in 1/4 mile. So I'm going to slow down and cut across three lanes of traffic, causing a everyone behind me to slam on their brakes because f#@k you. It's all about me.

My vehicle is severely overloaded so I'm going to drive 1/2 the posted speed limit no matter what because F#@k you. It's all about me.

I'm on a bicycle riding against traffic, running red lights because F#@k you. It's all about me.

I'm a pedestrian. I see a car backing out of a parking space. It is actually moving. Do I stop? Hell no. I walk behind the moving car because F#@k you. It's all about me.

[Komeht]

Originally Posted by JWUC

my $.02. I don't think a lot of rules and laws are going to change anything. It's an attitude shift. Austin has become a city of "F#@k you. It's all about me."

I'm in the left hand lane and want to exit 183 in 1/4 mile. So I'm going to slow down and cut across three lanes of traffic, causing a everyone behind me to slam on their brakes because f#@k you. It's all about me.

My vehicle is severely overloaded so I'm going to drive 1/2 the posted speed limit no matter what because F#@k you. It's all about me.

I'm on a bicycle riding against traffic, running red lights because F#@k you. It's all about me.

I'm a pedestrian. I see a car backing out of a parking space. It is actually moving. Do I stop? Hell no. I walk behind the moving car because F#@k you. It's all about me.

LOL - i.e. anything that gets in the way of moving your car down the road as fast as possible is "f#@k you, It's all about me." Hmm. . .pot, kettle, black

[JWUC]

Originally Posted by Komeht

LOL - i.e. anything that gets in the way of moving your car down the road as fast as possible is "f#@k you, It's all about me." Hmm. . .pot, kettle, black

There's two there that think that: The car driving ultra fast down a city street and the "anything in the way of the moving car" who believes they are the only thing on the road and also behaves as such.

I was brought up to believe that, when on a road (driving, walking, bicycling) pay mind to everything else. Try to anticipate what they might do. Be aware.

While driving, Try to anticipate if the kid is going to cross the street after the ball or if that bicyclist is going to turn.

While walking, and the walk signal flashes. I still look both ways before even stepping out onto the street.
If I'm not in a car, I always pay special heed. Not because cars are superior and always have the right-of way, but because any collision between me and a car is going to result in me losing. Might totally be the car's fault, I still lost with the road rash, broken bones, ruptured organs, concussion, etc. I might get money from a lawsuit....I still lost. I've had road rash with a concussion and I've had relatives end up in the hospital because their bicycle lost a fight with a car. Don't want to do it again and I'll take precautions to that effect.

I feel old saying this but, back when there wasn't infotainment systems and cell phones, you could reasonably predict people's behaviors and make allowances in your behavior. Now, I can't tell if the idiot behind the wheel sees me or is busy texting someone. I can't tell if the pedestrian is even aware they are about to walk into traffic while playing on their new iPad.

so, maybe "f#@k you, It's all about me." in my previous examples was a bit extreme (even though I've seen each of these), but it also goes into so buried in your own personal comfort and convenience you aren't aware of anything else that's going on.

[TexasHorseLady]

Originally Posted by JWUC

There's two there that think that: The car driving ultra fast down a city street and the "anything in the way of the moving car" who believes they are the only thing on the road and also behaves as such.

I was brought up to believe that, when on a road (driving, walking, bicycling) pay mind to everything else. Try to anticipate what they might do. Be aware.

While driving, Try to anticipate if the kid is going to cross the street after the ball or if that bicyclist is going to turn.

While walking, and the walk signal flashes. I still look both ways before even stepping out onto the street.
If I'm not in a car, I always pay special heed. Not because cars are superior and always have the right-of way, but because any collision between me and a car is going to result in me losing. Might totally be the car's fault, I still lost with the road rash, broken bones, ruptured organs, concussion, etc. I might get money from a lawsuit....I still lost. I've had road rash with a concussion and I've had relatives end up in the hospital because their bicycle lost a fight with a car. Don't want to do it again and I'll take precautions to that effect.

I feel old saying this but, back when there wasn't infotainment systems and cell phones, you could reasonably predict people's behaviors and make allowances in your behavior. Now, I can't tell if the idiot behind the wheel sees me or is busy texting someone. I can't tell if the pedestrian is even aware they are about to walk into traffic while playing on their new iPad.

so, maybe "f#@k you, It's all about me." in my previous examples was a bit extreme (even though I've seen each of these), but it also goes into so buried in your own personal comfort and convenience you aren't aware of anything else that's going on.

Add into this "I've decided that I can decide whether or not to stop at the traffic control device rather than behaving predictably and obeying the law" and it becomes even less predictable and more dangerous.

[LiveUrban]

Originally Posted by TexasHorseLady

Add into this "I've decided that I can decide whether or not to stop at the traffic control device rather than behaving predictably and obeying the law" and it becomes even less predictable and more dangerous.

Bicyclist injuries were actually reduced 14.5% there after Idaho Stop law was implemented.
'Idaho Stop' is a go for bicycle safety | OregonLive.com

Just to make sure we're on the right page here on what the Idaho Stop law actually is.. Whenever a cyclist approaches an intersection and there is no through traffic in sight, they are allowed to proceed with caution.

It really helps out considering a lot of the traffic lights in town that are trigger-sensitive do no recognize the frame of bikes. I've had to push the crosswalk signal many times in Austin because the light would not change green for me.

Of course if there are cars coming bicycles need to stop and wait. A good majority of the time the instinct to survive keeps people aware and crossing only when the coast is clear.

[verybadgnome]

People complain about Austin trying to be like Portland but last year they had zero bicycle fatalities. They accomplished the same thing in 1999, 2000, 2002, 2006, 2008 and 2010. So whatever they are doing I say we emulate them even more.

I really do think cyclists are being made the scapegoat for motorists frustration with congestion, more than any actual concern for their own safety or that of the cyclists.

I defy anyone who has not done it to try commuting by bike for one week obeying all laws and see firsthand what it is like. When you realize how many motorists do not look for anything smaller than a miata or can't be bothered to pay full attention to what they are doing you will change your opinion radically. Cyclists are not the only victims. Those 'loud pipes save lives' stickers on Harleys are not directed at cyclists I can assure you, but rather the thousands of cars and trucks who sometimes can't be bothered looking before they change lanes.