Jump the Shark (aka random topics) (Austin, St. Paul: house, college, commercial)

[twange]

Originally Posted by schoenfraun

"This guy" is Espera di Corti, the son of Sicilian immigrants, born in Louisiana. He went by the stage name "Iron Eyes Cody" and somehow made a career of impersonating a Native American. It is equivalent to blackface. It's offensive.

Yet he remains very popular. You'll find as many references on the "internets" to him ("the Crying Indian") as often as the phrase "jump the shark."

But we don't need him to start making commecials again. He's dead.

Jeez, sorry.

I know the history behind him(and that he's dead) and all of the exaggerated stereotypes that those commercials generated. I was simply making a humorous reference to the 70s when the anti-litter/pollution campaign was attempting to reach out to a TV generation. Looking back, those commercials may have been offensive(and phony), but I was a little kid when they were shown and they did have an impact on young people even if it was presented under false pretenses. The message was good: "People start pollution, people can stop it." And while he wasn't an authentic First Nations People, that image was influential and iconic in those days. Most kids had no concrete connection to Natives, with the exception of their lame history books(i.e. pictures of Indians and Pilgrims sharing Thanksgiving). Something like that would never fly today, but the message is clearly not getting out.

Sorry to offend you.

[jhwest]

Oh yeah, that "Indian" really affected me too. Who wants to make a grown man cry? I have really vivid memories of feeling just awful about pollution becaue of him. Anyway, I don't have a problem that he wasn't native american. I mean, it is acting.

[love roses]

I'm with jhwest there. On the radio this morning they were talking about how college, etc..breeds people to be offended nowadays. I think it was an effective way to try and get people to stop littering. Smoky the bear was a good character as well, and Mr. Yuck.

[twange]

The best one I've seen today is the Honda commercial where the one guy collects all of the litter from one habitual litterer...and then builds a tree sculpture made of said trash on top of his car. A little holier-than-thou and pompous but effective:

YouTube - Honda civic hybrid - you dropped this commercial

[b. frank]

Originally Posted by love roses

I'm with jhwest there. On the radio this morning they were talking about how college, etc..breeds people to be offended nowadays. I think it was an effective way to try and get people to stop littering. Smoky the bear was a good character as well, and Mr. Yuck.

I'm offended! I am a green, sour-faced person and Mr. Yuck is a mockery of my people!
No, really I agree - I loved Mr. Yuck and Smokey. Very effective for kids.
I don't remember the Indian, er, First Nations guy though. Other than in The Simpsons episode.

[schoenfraun]

Originally Posted by b. frank

I'm offended! I am a green, sour-faced person and Mr. Yuck is a mockery of my people!
No, really I agree - I loved Mr. Yuck and Smokey. Very effective for kids.
I don't remember the Indian, er, First Nations guy though. Other than in The Simpsons episode.

To address the concerns of loves roses, I would say that college does not "breed people to be offended." Hopefully college instills thoughtfulness and teaches valuable critical thinking skills. It teaches students to question things, and not just accept things as they are, blindly.

As I read that response, which mentioned Smoky the Bear and Mr. Yuck, I thought of the joke that b.frank then made... And so I wasn't surprised when I read it.

The problem is that indigenous people are not cartoon characters like Smoky and Mr. Yuck. There are no green people to offend. Native people are not mascots, they are real, multi-dimensional people, and not characters or types.

If you don't want people to question their surroundings, it's best to keep your kids in front of the television and not send them to college. You'll save on college tuition but your expenses for sugared cereal and plastic toys will go up. And the status quo will be safe.

I found it interesting that the Crying Indian character was effectively resurrected for a recycling campaign, as NOT recycling is the new littering, I suppose.

Iron Eyes Cody has himself been recycled for the campaign. Funny and sad. People can't get enough of that guy.

I'd rather bring back other 70s TV commercial phrases, such as, "You sunk my battleship," or "Yahtzee!," personally.

[b. frank]

Originally Posted by schoenfraun

To address the concerns of loves roses, I would say that college does not "breed people to be offended." Hopefully college instills thoughtfulness and teaches valuable critical thinking skills. It teaches students to question things, and not just accept things as they are, blindly.

As I read that response, which mentioned Smoky the Bear and Mr. Yuck, I thought of the joke that b.frank then made... And so I wasn't surprised when I read it.

Oops - just to be clear: I agree that Smokey and Mr. Yuck are great characters for the education of kids. However, I disagree that college is in any way a bad thing. I feel offended by racial stereotypes. College helped me understand why I feel that way, but it did not cause it.

[twange]

Originally Posted by schoenfraun

I'd rather bring back other 70s TV commercial phrases, such as, "You sunk my battleship," or "Yahtzee!," personally.

I'm not sure those phrases have any real cultural relevance to ecology or racial/political boundaries, so I'm not sure why you included this comment...maybe just being funny?. That's a kind of a far reach from "People start pollution, people can stop it". Maybe something from Schoolhouse Rock would make a better point?

I agree that natives(first nation etc...) are not characters or mascots and using their image to politicize ecological movements is certainly debatable. But I think it's maybe a bit unfair to characterize the "Crying Indian" as the equivalent of "blackface". While the commercials seem hokey and cartoon-ish by today's standards, they were not intended to mock, disrespect or lampoon that culture. Quite the opposite. If anything, they were intended as "anglo-scolds" towards those of European descent, that were irreverent towards the natural environment that natives had respected and lived off of for centuries. Was it heavy-handed and romanticized? Definitely. Did it make it's point to many people who saw it? I think so.

Here's an article on Snopes about Iron Eyes(In case nobody wants to read it, I'll include a few paragraphs in this post).

Urban Legends Reference Pages: Iron Eyes Cody

Select Quotes:

"Although Iron Eyes was not born an Indian, he lived his adult years as one. He pledged his life to Native American causes, married an Indian woman (Bertha Parker), adopted two Indian boys (Robert and Arthur), and seldom left home without his beaded moccasins, buckskin jacket and braided wig. His was not a short-lived masquerade nor one that was donned and doffed whenever expedient — he maintained his fiction throughout his life and steadfastly denied rumors that he was not an Indian, even after his half-sister surfaced to tell the story in 1996 and to provide pointers to the whereabouts of his birth certificate and other family documents.

Even if Iron Eyes was not a true-born Native American, he certainly did a lot of good on behalf of the Native American community, and they generally accepted him as one of them without caring about his true ancestry. In 1995, Hollywood's Native American community honored Iron Eyes for his longstanding contribution to Native American causes. Although he was no Indian, they pointed out, his charitable deeds were more important than his non-Indian heritage."

[twange]

Originally Posted by b. frank

Oops - just to be clear: I agree that Smokey and Mr. Yuck are great characters for the education of kids. However, I disagree that college is in any way a bad thing. I feel offended by racial stereotypes. College helped me understand why I feel that way, but it did not cause it.

I can't imagine any reasonable person thinking college is a bad thing. People become offended for many different reasons, college or not. If getting more information about people and places is considered "bad" than I think we need more of it. I think it's healthy and productive to disagree about perceptions and discuss the various elements of whether something is offensive or not, but I think it's best to refrain from over-reaching generalities and aspersions.

[Darlynn0217]

I agree that I was influenced by "that guy", Mr Yuck and Smokey, and I would say, for the better!

"Maybe something from Schoolhouse Rock would make a better point?"-twange

I loved that, too and my Son can still recite the Bill of Rights (in tune!) because of SH Rock!

**I tried to give you MORE reps, twange, but I gotta spread it around before I "hit" ya again!"

Let's all go to the polls for that "CHANGE" they are ALL talkin' about! The only way to fix things is to speak out, stay involved and VOTE!! On all levels, especially city government that regulates responsible development and protects our valuble resources!