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Old 04-27-2015, 09:43 PM
 
Location: Austin, TX
171 posts, read 156,795 times
Reputation: 95

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What does it matter if they're represented in clubs more so than sports? Some families choose athletics, some choose scouting and/or other activities. The choices may be influenced by the various talents each brings to bear rather than because they're from a particular ethnic group. My kids participate in Kumon (a Japanese program) and we are not one of the stereotyped groups mentioned previously in this thread.

There are many, many reasons parents choose to send their children down particular paths. Pinning them on a particular ethnic/racial group minimizes what is likely a considered process by which parents chose to focus on certain areas over others. Most kids will not be professional athletes and the athletic competition to play on many of the teams is intense. The other activities give these kids an outlet to develop themselves academically and socially, to include follower-ship and leadership. My kids may never play professional sports, but they could own a professional sports team one day. :-)
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Old 04-28-2015, 02:54 AM
 
6,336 posts, read 11,480,370 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariel_Austin View Post
What does it matter if they're represented in clubs more so than sports? Some families choose athletics, some choose scouting and/or other activities. The choices may be influenced by the various talents each brings to bear rather than because they're from a particular ethnic group. My kids participate in Kumon (a Japanese program) and we are not one of the stereotyped groups mentioned previously in this thread.

There are many, many reasons parents choose to send their children down particular paths. Pinning them on a particular ethnic/racial group minimizes what is likely a considered process by which parents chose to focus on certain areas over others. Most kids will not be professional athletes and the athletic competition to play on many of the teams is intense. The other activities give these kids an outlet to develop themselves academically and socially, to include follower-ship and leadership. My kids may never play professional sports, but they could own a professional sports team one day. :-)
I only pointed out that it is a pressure cooker because of the strong focus on extra education outside of school and the relentless focus on school. Someone else said that they didnt do sports or extra curricular activities and my point is that while they dont do as much sports, they are relentless in their focus on non sport extra curricular activities AND academics.

And you can of course make generalizations about cultures. It has nothing to do with race. It is the reality of westwood.

here is the canyon vista chess club


Here are the national merit scholars (westwood is only 25% asian, NM are predominately asian)



math club


debate club


orchestra


Apparently asians do play tennis at westwood


in contrast basketball


volleyball



golf


softball


cheer


Thats great that your kids participate in kumon and arent in one of the stereotyped groups. It doesnt change the fact that asians have a huge focus on education and that is what makes westwood so competitive.

Last edited by Austin97; 04-28-2015 at 03:22 AM..
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Old 04-28-2015, 03:15 AM
 
Location: Austin, TX
171 posts, read 156,795 times
Reputation: 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by Austin97 View Post
I only pointed out that it is a pressure cooker because of the strong focus on extra education outside of school and the relentless focus on school. Someone else said that they didnt do sports or extra curricular activities and my point is that while they dont do as much sports, they are relentless in their focus on non sport extra curricular activities AND academics.

And you can of course make generalizations about cultures. It has nothing to do with race. It is the reality of westwood.

[photos/photo comments removed]


Thats great that your kids participate in kumon and arent in one of the stereotyped groups. It doesnt change the fact that asians have a huge focus on education and that is what makes westwood so competitive.
As I suggested previously, you're distilling a multitude of factors into a singular basis for a decision across an entire ethnic group. It's not that simple. One could flip the entire conversation on its head and argue that the other groups don't care enough about their children's education to focus enough on extracurricular academics to ensure they are competitive. That argument would be ludicrous as well.

As an aside, please use apostrophes and capitalize when appropriate.
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Old 04-28-2015, 06:38 AM
 
6,336 posts, read 11,480,370 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariel_Austin View Post
As I suggested previously, you're distilling a multitude of factors into a singular basis for a decision across an entire ethnic group. It's not that simple. One could flip the entire conversation on its head and argue that the other groups don't care enough about their children's education to focus enough on extracurricular academics to ensure they are competitive. That argument would be ludicrous as well.

As an aside, please use apostrophes and capitalize when appropriate.
It is actually not a single ethnic group. It consists of koreans, chinese, vietnamese, south asians (which themselves are multiple ethnic groups) and probably others.

The one thing that they have in common is that they are hyper focused on education. I never said 100% are, but close to it.

you could flip the argument on its head but it wouldnt make sense and wouldnt be true. It would be fair to say that they have a different philosophy of education that has nothing to do with not caring enough. Im not making any value judgement (as you keep trying to do). Im sticking to what the behaviors are.

Asians will generally push to get every possible edge, because that is how the system in their home countries work. It is extremely cutthroat and most bring that attitude to the united states. In virtually all asian countries the equivalent of the SAT/ACT determines your level of success for the rest of your life. People commit suicide after not doing well on the exams.


I havent said it is genetic or any other such nonsense, but it is cultural. It has no basis on ethnicity.

Please use actual logic instead of insults and grammar attacks.
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Old 04-28-2015, 09:51 AM
 
Location: Warrior Country
4,577 posts, read 5,390,336 times
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I don't think that anyone would disagree that the average 1st (or 2nd) generation Asian (Professional) Parent is more focused on Education than the average non-Asian parent. But your other assumptions don't make sense to me (& your pictures only confuses matters).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Austin97 View Post
It is actually not a single ethnic group. It consists of koreans, chinese, vietnamese, south asians (which themselves are multiple ethnic groups) and probably others.

The one thing that they have in common is that they are hyper focused on education. I never said 100% are, but close to it.

you could flip the argument on its head but it wouldnt make sense and wouldnt be true. It would be fair to say that they have a different philosophy of education that has nothing to do with not caring enough. Im not making any value judgement (as you keep trying to do). Im sticking to what the behaviors are.

Asians will generally push to get every possible edge, because that is how the system in their home countries work. It is extremely cutthroat and most bring that attitude to the united states. In virtually all asian countries the equivalent of the SAT/ACT determines your level of success for the rest of your life. People commit suicide after not doing well on the exams.


I havent said it is genetic or any other such nonsense, but it is cultural. It has no basis on ethnicity.

Please use actual logic instead of insults and grammar attacks.
Most of the pics don't seem logical to me as any type of proof.

- You discuss ES kids doing doll houses & kids using maps & compasses. (What does that have to do with Westwood HS & I suspect other cultures have similar activities.)

- You claim it's a "pressure cooker". Is WLHS also a pressure cooker? Their SAT scores are almost as high. Are all 2400 students feeling this pressure? (or only those at the top of the heap)

- You claim that they are "relentless" in non-sports afterschool activities. This is not an Asian thing. Any high performing HS that has a large percentage of kids likely NOT attending UT or A&M will be padding their resume with clubs/activities/charities etc.

The pictures are (in order):

- A MS chess club. All one does is show up.

- National Merit Scholars - which takes years of work & Dedication.

- A HS Math Club. (again, a resume padder & anyone can join)

- A HS debate club. (same)

- A HS Varsity Orchestra (Which takes years of practice & talent).

- A 2-3 year old JV or Freshman Tennis Picture. (If you chew gum & walk at the same time you make that team....definitely a resume padder - & fun recreation) Varsity Tennis at WW is a different story though.

- A few other sports pics (who knows if JV or Varsity & one pic from 2012).

It's partly cultural, but it's also assimilation. As a parent of a Varsity Athlete, I would say that if one wants to compete at a Varsity Level, one is likely exposed to sports early (say 6-8 years old). Probably the same if you want to be on Varsity Symphony. Also, if you come from a culture which doesn't participate (much if any) in certain sports (like football, baseball, volleyball & possibly even basketball), then the kid is 2-3 steps behind since he won't have early catches, shoot arounds etc.(with a parent or older sibling at an early age) & more important the FOB parent can't coach or participate (much) in these very American Team sports.

Also, Team Sports force one to conform to their practice schedule and the kid is sometimes dependent on the coach for playing time or advancement. Instead, many Asian kids participate in sports that the parents are familiar with. (Tennis, Soccer, possibly Golf). And an advantage to Tennis & Golf is that you set your own schedule (until one gets to HS).

So if a parent can't help get the kid started...AND to make Varsity it helps not to be 2-3 competitive steps behind, it is logical that an Asian kid wouldn't be participating at Varsity Level Fball, Bball & Basketball. Maybe his kids will play varsity, but at 6A, you need to be a complete "player" by 7th or 8th grade (& 90% of kids have focused in on one sport by 9th grade), or you won't make varsity. Just look at the non-athletic tennis kids on that JV tennis picture from two years ago....only two kids in that pic are now on varsity.

I would say in 20-25 years, if WW is still 40% Asian, that the Varsity Team Sports will reflect 40% Asian participation. It takes time.
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Old 04-28-2015, 10:54 AM
 
Location: Round Rock, Texas
8,284 posts, read 8,311,471 times
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I'll have some butter on my popcorn please.
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Old 04-28-2015, 11:23 AM
 
Location: central Austin
7,137 posts, read 13,036,492 times
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I have a friend who has a high-achieving Anglo son at Westwood. The kids themselves develop and reinforce some pretty horrifying stereotypes about whites as dumb jocks and Asians as high achieving grinders and it comes from both white and Asian kids! The Asian high-achieving kids actually consider her son to be an "honorary Asian." They have a term for it too! I wish I could remember it!! Something about being white on the outside but Asian inside. His social group is now entirely Asian.

I was busy picking my jaw off the ground and don't remember the term.
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Old 04-28-2015, 11:25 AM
 
Location: The People's Republic of Austin
5,184 posts, read 5,723,502 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by centralaustinite View Post
I was busy picking my jaw off the ground and don't remember the term.
Eggs. White outside, yellow inside.
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Old 04-28-2015, 11:41 AM
 
Location: Warrior Country
4,577 posts, read 5,390,336 times
Reputation: 3953
It's not at ALL horrifying. But it is very politically incorrect...& has moved past (& pokes fun at) stereotypes.

Can't repeat a lot of the good natured smack I hear coming out of athletes mouths. Not much has changed though, same as it was on my football & basketball teams in the late 70s.
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Old 04-28-2015, 12:00 PM
 
Location: Austin, TX
171 posts, read 156,795 times
Reputation: 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by Austin97 View Post
It is actually not a single ethnic group. It consists of koreans, chinese, vietnamese, south asians (which themselves are multiple ethnic groups) and probably others.

The one thing that they have in common is that they are hyper focused on education. I never said 100% are, but close to it.

you could flip the argument on its head but it wouldnt make sense and wouldnt be true. It would be fair to say that they have a different philosophy of education that has nothing to do with not caring enough. Im not making any value judgement (as you keep trying to do). Im sticking to what the behaviors are.

Asians will generally push to get every possible edge, because that is how the system in their home countries work. It is extremely cutthroat and most bring that attitude to the united states. In virtually all asian countries the equivalent of the SAT/ACT determines your level of success for the rest of your life. People commit suicide after not doing well on the exams.


I havent said it is genetic or any other such nonsense, but it is cultural. It has no basis on ethnicity.

Please use actual logic instead of insults and grammar attacks.
You absolutely are making value judgments and no amount of protest otherwise changes that. Unless you happen to live with all of these families, you have no idea how much focus they put on one aspect of their child's educational, social, and athletic/extracurricular activities over another (or at the expense of another). You likely have anecdotal information, or perhaps experiential-based information, at best. The point is you've essentially said "Asians don't care about anything but education and they do so at the expense of all else." By education I'm confining it to academic education to keep it within the context of this otherwise ridiculous discussion since, education, is really much more broad (academic, social, etc.).

Your SAT/ACT argument about determining level of success for the rest of your life doesn't address similar foci in several European countries. Further, one's level of success in life is not determined by one's SAT/ACT score. On the other hand, I don't know of many parents, regardless of racial, cultural, or ethnic background, who don't want their children to do well. Certainly this desire for one's children to do better is not confined to certain groups whether you define them as racial, cultural, or ethnic.
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