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Old 04-29-2015, 02:56 PM
 
Location: Jollyville, TX
3,843 posts, read 9,411,873 times
Reputation: 4379

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Quote:
Originally Posted by scm53 View Post
Since you weren't here then, let someone who was tell you that you couldn't be further from the truth. Number one -- Austin has NEVER been a "nice conservative town". It has always been the outcast in the state - from time immemorial.

Austin has always had a deep appreciation for music -- starting with Dessau Hall, the Skyline club (where both Hank Williams and Johnny Horton had their last public appearance), and Threadgill's. The east side's Victory Grill was a regular stop on the chitlin' circuit. So music - of many different types - has always been a rich part of Austin's cultural identity. And widely accepted.

As far as "trying to turn it into another San Francisco" -- another misnomer. If anything, San Francisco, as far as pop culture went, became another Austin. When Thirteenth Floor Elevators (first band ever labeled as psychedelic) went to SF in the summer of '66, there was nothing like them there. Folk music and coffee houses dominated the musical landscape. Most music historians will tell you that without them, there would have never been the rise of Grateful Dead, Jefferson Airplane, Quicksilver Messenger Service and Big Brother and the Holding Company (featuring lead singer Janis Joplin, who started her musical career at Austin's Threadgill's). SF's music scene didn't really take off until '68 -- well after the Elevators were already national names.

Also, much of what became the art associated with "hippie" SF came from Austinites Gilbert Shelton and Jim Franklin. Shelton, former art director of Vulcan Gas Company (the first Austin "psychedelic" venue) moved to SF in '68 to do more poster work -- but his real claim to fame was as the creator of the seminal Fabulous Furry Freak Brothers comic series. Franklin and Shelton worked together at the Vulcan, but it was Franklin's concert poster work that was widely emulated in SF for the Fillmore and Avalon ballrooms.

Now, despite being pretty welcoming of the dress and music and art, the acceptance of mind altering substances was quite a different thing ...
I wasn't trying to be literal...it was kind of tongue in cheek - I was just drawing a comparison between someone complaining about all the hispters now to the fact that somebody (albeit not everyone) was complaining about hippies in a former era.

And yeah, I realize it wasn't really like that - I moved to Temple in '78 and we made many trips to Austin. Temple was a conservative town...Austin was always a little more free spirited and eclectic.

Last edited by Moonlady; 04-29-2015 at 03:12 PM..
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Old 04-29-2015, 04:00 PM
 
Location: Central Texas
20,385 posts, read 37,689,162 times
Reputation: 22518
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquitaine View Post
Sure, but when its people refuse to make any infrastructure, they're making their own bed...which is exactly what's happened.

I don't begrudge folks who miss the Austin of the 90s (or even the early 2000s) but the NIMBY and pseudo-environmentalists who think 'if they don't build it, they won't come' because two more lanes of highway are going to destroy their beautiful hill country - well, those folks complaining about the traffic is pretty hilarious. They're actually complaining about the other people...as in, 'we don't want you to live here and we tried to stop you from coming.'

I get not wanting a high rise in view of the hill country, or thinking it's a shame that we need highways in places that used to be untouched, but I can't come around to the view that it's such a terrible thing without embracing a certain kind of elitism that says 'this is just for me,' because when folks show up by the thousands to live and work in 'your' city, you can choose to accommodate them, or not.

Austin has (finally) come around to trying to accommodate them, but over the cries of your TexasHorseLadys who are afraid that 'more people' means 'common denominator,' as if the thing that makes Austin special is just that not a lot of people live here. I can empathize with that view: I liked my own neighborhood better three years ago, and it wasn't even small then; but it's that much more crowded now, and that certainly dampens my enjoyment of it. But who am I to tell all these people they shouldn't live here? Or that the cost of living here is sitting at the intersection of Slaughter and Mopac for 10 minutes each way? What is you alternative suggestion for getting all these folks where they need to go?

"Preserve things how they were" is a recipe for San Francisco-scale housing prices and disaster. We already have enough of that pressure here (see also: 11% rise in appraised value).
Boy, you couldn't have missed my point more if you'd actually really really tried hard to do so.

It's not MORE people, it's people who move here and miss the point of Austin entirely and promptly try to make Austin over into something it isn't to match what they're comfortable with. People who move here and love Austin for what she is even if they miss some things where they came from and who don't immediately start trying to turn her into something else are, and always have been, welcome.

As I've said many times before, it's not growth, it's the kind of growth that's killing Austin.
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Old 04-29-2015, 04:18 PM
 
Location: South Austin, 78745
2,949 posts, read 2,105,205 times
Reputation: 5022
I been in Austin for quite a few years. I met quite a few people who have moved here in the last few years and I have yet to meet a newcomer who wants to make Austin like the place they came from. I keep hearing about people that want to do that, but I don't think I've personally met any.

Everything changes. Change is the one thing in this world that is constant. I miss some things about Austin from the 70's and 80's, but I long for my youth, too. It's easier to go along with change than to try and fight it when change is inevitible. Austin will be as different from today in 2055 as today is different from 1975.

But I love Austin of today. I think it's the best city in the United States to live in, hands down over all the rest. Its expensive for me to live here on my wage, but fortunately I live very modestly and can afford to make a living on my own in Austin.
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Old 04-29-2015, 06:05 PM
 
Location: Austin TX
5,754 posts, read 3,397,621 times
Reputation: 7837
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivory Lee Spurlock View Post
I been in Austin for quite a few years. I met quite a few people who have moved here in the last few years and I have yet to meet a newcomer who wants to make Austin like the place they came from. I keep hearing about people that want to do that, but I don't think I've personally met any.

Everything changes. Change is the one thing in this world that is constant. I miss some things about Austin from the 70's and 80's, but I long for my youth, too. It's easier to go along with change than to try and fight it when change is inevitible. Austin will be as different from today in 2055 as today is different from 1975.

But I love Austin of today. I think it's the best city in the United States to live in, hands down over all the rest. Its expensive for me to live here on my wage, but fortunately I live very modestly and can afford to make a living on my own in Austin.
Hands-down the best post I've seen here on this topic.
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Old 04-29-2015, 06:35 PM
 
Location: Austin, TX
1,285 posts, read 2,288,751 times
Reputation: 1034
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nor Cal Wahine View Post
Hands-down the best post I've seen here on this topic.
So, the middle-class is destined to leave Austin? A city which will most likely surpass 1 million in 5 years...OK!

Next time, say you don't care. We are in Texas. You can be honest. But, remember, Texans are born honest, and you know, we will respond in the most Texan of ways!
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Old 04-29-2015, 09:24 PM
 
Location: Austin TX
5,754 posts, read 3,397,621 times
Reputation: 7837
Quote:
Originally Posted by ImOnFiya View Post
So, the middle-class is destined to leave Austin? A city which will most likely surpass 1 million in 5 years...OK!

Next time, say you don't care. We are in Texas. You can be honest. But, remember, Texans are born honest, and you know, we will respond in the most Texan of ways!
I did not make any mention in my post of socioeconomic classes or where their destiny lies. I simply praised another poster for making points that I felt were valid. I think it is that poster that you should direct your response to, not me.
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Old 04-29-2015, 09:44 PM
 
Location: Austin, TX
1,285 posts, read 2,288,751 times
Reputation: 1034
Quote:
Originally Posted by nor cal wahine View Post
i did not make any mention in my post of socioeconomic classes or where their destiny lies. I simply praised another poster for making points that i felt were valid. I think it is that poster that you should direct your response to, not me.
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Old 04-30-2015, 07:44 AM
 
Location: Austin
676 posts, read 488,802 times
Reputation: 911
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivory Lee Spurlock View Post
I been in Austin for quite a few years. I met quite a few people who have moved here in the last few years and I have yet to meet a newcomer who wants to make Austin like the place they came from. I keep hearing about people that want to do that, but I don't think I've personally met any.

Everything changes. Change is the one thing in this world that is constant. I miss some things about Austin from the 70's and 80's, but I long for my youth, too. It's easier to go along with change than to try and fight it when change is inevitible. Austin will be as different from today in 2055 as today is different from 1975.

But I love Austin of today. I think it's the best city in the United States to live in, hands down over all the rest. Its expensive for me to live here on my wage, but fortunately I live very modestly and can afford to make a living on my own in Austin.
"You must spread around some reputation before giving it to Ivory Lee Spurlock again" ... excellent post, spot on!
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Old 04-30-2015, 08:00 AM
 
Location: Austin, TX
1,762 posts, read 2,149,635 times
Reputation: 1499
Quote:
As I've said many times before, it's not growth, it's the kind of growth that's killing Austin.
Sorry, I call BS.

You and others have expressed the very non-controversial view that 'it's people who want to come to Austin and turn it into California that are the problem' and I'm on board with that, whatever it means. It's so general and easy to agree with: folks who come here and immediately demand whatever it was they liked about where they left - it would make somebody so unlikable that it's easy to pretend that it's 'those people' who are the villains ruining Austin.

The trouble is, your next sentence invariably refers to highways in the hill country, which is a completely different subject and I suspect the source of your real objection. And like I say, I get it. It's a perfectly ordinary and human objection. I wish, for instance, that instead of installing the traffic light at Escarpment and SH 45 that is happening right now, we just had so few people on SH 45 that we didn't need one - it was great back then. It sucks now. That's how it goes. It's also built-in to our lifecycle: we bought houses in a place because we like how it was. Now it's not like that (for better and worse) so we gripe about it.

Where we part ways is that I think Austin should have built its highways BEFORE all the development going on now - it would've had more control over them and they would have cost less. Instead, to appease SOS and neighborhood groups, it did nothing for a long time. That's the irresponsible outcome of the perfectly ordinary objection.
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Old 04-30-2015, 04:05 PM
 
Location: Central Texas
20,385 posts, read 37,689,162 times
Reputation: 22518
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquitaine View Post
Sorry, I call BS.

You and others have expressed the very non-controversial view that 'it's people who want to come to Austin and turn it into California that are the problem' and I'm on board with that, whatever it means. It's so general and easy to agree with: folks who come here and immediately demand whatever it was they liked about where they left - it would make somebody so unlikable that it's easy to pretend that it's 'those people' who are the villains ruining Austin.

The trouble is, your next sentence invariably refers to highways in the hill country, which is a completely different subject and I suspect the source of your real objection. And like I say, I get it. It's a perfectly ordinary and human objection. I wish, for instance, that instead of installing the traffic light at Escarpment and SH 45 that is happening right now, we just had so few people on SH 45 that we didn't need one - it was great back then. It sucks now. That's how it goes. It's also built-in to our lifecycle: we bought houses in a place because we like how it was. Now it's not like that (for better and worse) so we gripe about it.

Where we part ways is that I think Austin should have built its highways BEFORE all the development going on now - it would've had more control over them and they would have cost less. Instead, to appease SOS and neighborhood groups, it did nothing for a long time. That's the irresponsible outcome of the perfectly ordinary objection.
Were you here then? Were you aware that at the time there was a real drive to pave over the Hill Country, the aquifer be damned? Are you aware that however annoying some may find SOS (and I find them annoying, too, a lot of the time, even occasionally when I agree with whatever point they're making), that a lot of the rules we have that protect our water and the Hill Country exist because of them and their ilk slowing the freight train down enough to actually maybe even THINK about what we were doing in the worship of the almighty mammon?
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