NON-HOA neighborhoods and communities (Round Rock, Brushy Creek: home, transfer, buying)

[Trainwreck20]

I would vehemently disagree that "most people" are happy with their HOA

I have not run into a single person (not to say there aren't any) in my neighborhood that dislikes the HOA. I obviously don't know everyone, though. Anyway, I would agree that most people are happy with the HOAs.

[IC_deLight]

Originally Posted by austin-steve

This is full of so many inaccuracies and wrong information I don't know where I'd start, so I'll just say that anyone frightened by this should take it with a grain of salt and do your own research.

Yes, some of it is true to some degree, but it's like anything in life. If you present the worst case one-sided analysis, and exagerate on top of that, it will scare people.

Here are some facts to consider:
At present, there are 8088 homes listed for sale in the Austin MLS. Of those, 4611 are listed as having a Mandatory HOA. That leaves 3477 Austin homes instead of 8088 for an anti-HOA buyer to choose from.

Of the 3477 non-HOA homes, 1017 are 10 years old or newer. If you need at least 1800 square feet, your down to 727 homes to consider. And we haven't even filtered for bedrooms, garage, schools, etc. So if you start your search saying "I want a home in Austin with at least 1800 square feet and no more than 10 years old" you will have 727 homes to pick from instead of 8088.

In MLS area SWW (Southwest Austin), there are at present 122 homes listed, of which 97 have a mandatory HOA. That leaves 25 to pick from, having eliminated 80% of available homes in area SWW.

See my point about the consequence of severly limiting the homes from which to choose? It's easy to want no HOA, in concept, but one should understand what is being left off the table when doing so.

The truth is very few average people have any trouble whatsoever which their HOA. The majority of Austinites own homes with HOAs. If you know how to pull in your trashcan and mow your yard, you won't be bothered. 90% of the fines and letters sent are about those two things.

Almost no homes are built without an HOA anymore, so it's part of life for most people, just like taxes and gas prices. You can accept it and adapt, or reject it and pick your home from the leftovers.

Steve

As someone else has already noted, the author didn't apply the filter of square footage, etc. to all homes in order to come up with the number, but rather only the non-HOA homes. Thus an artificially low number was generated. Of course the number would probably be lower than anything MLS indicated anyway since you cannot rely on MLS to conclude that a home is not in an HOA. The fact that there are fewer homes to choose from hardly justifies giving up on fundamental requirements.

The Realtor's statements seem to suggest a desire to push to put people into HOAs. Why should the buyer be discouraged from purchasing in a non-HOA environment as the Realtor tries to do over and over again? Is it because the churn of homes in HOAs makes good business for Realtors? The gist of the "rationales" boils down to the following: "most people are happy", "don't worry it won't happen to you", "only undesirables who don't know how to bring in a trash can or mow their lawns should worry about being fined or threatened with foreclosure". Are these reassuring selling points for HOAs?

As far as statistics on non-compliance letters, the quoted number is pulled out of a hat. You could purchase a home in an HOA without fining powers only to find that the management company convinced the Board to adopt a fining policy. The "priority of payment" scam was also imposed in order to threaten people with the loss of their homes unless they pay the management company money for alleged violations. Happened to West Cave Estates about 18 months ago. People get jumpy when cars drive by because they wonder what they will next be anonymously accused of being in violation of. The management companies like to keep those notices of violation secret from the rest of the neighborhood so that the residents stay in a somewhat fearful, compliant state.

Until there are laws protecting homeowners from the priority of payment scam, unlimited assessments, "proxy voting", closed elections, closed records, closed meetings, transfer fees, these management companies, and a host of other problems in these HOAs, the informed buyer might want to just stay clear in order to protect and enjoy their investment.

I frankly cannot understand why the conclusion that the Buyer's requirement reduces the number of homes to choose from somehow justifies giving up on a fundamental requirement. Every Buyer-imposed requirement reduces the number of homes to choose from. At the very least Realtors should be professional enough to respect the buyer's desire to steer away from an HOA.

Homes are commodities to the Realtor. A home is NOT a commodity to the family that will be living in it. Instead of creating red herring statistics which do nothing to address any of the problems in HOA-land or these MLS issues, surely we could all agree that Realtors should respect a Buyer's fundamental requirements such as "no HOA".

[Trainwreck20]

If you want to live in an HOA, feel free. If you don't want to live in an HOA, feel free to do that also. There are a lot of 'could happen' situations. The thing is, most rarely happen. The state can pretty much take your land under eminent domain, but how likely is that to happen? I am not moving out of the state (or country) just because that possibility exists. I have lived in an HOA governed neighborhood for several years now. I have no complaints. The neighborhood is built out and the owners pretty much decide everything. They are not out to make money or make you miserable. They do require us to mow and water our grass and require approval on yard projects that are permanent and visible from the street. I can live with that. Our dues are low, and, among other things, go to pay for extending the lifeguard season at the city pool, watering and maintaining the neighborhood added landscaping, and publishing a small newsletter. Since I know a couple of these people, I am very comfortable with the situation. I suppose some crazy things could theoretically happen, but they have not and I am not worried that they will.

The Realtor's statements seem to suggest a desire to push to put people into HOAs

I don't get that impression at all. He is proposing that the HOA situation is minor compared to location, age of house, size of house, etc. I have no idea why a realtor would care if you ended up buying into an HOA or not.

...only to find that the management company convinced the Board...

The owners (at least in a built out neighborhood) are the board. They are not, as mentioned above, out to get me. Did you know that lobbyists could convince the legislature to raise taxes? Did you know you can vote them out and reverse it, if you really want? I don't feel like I am not in control, because most people are 'reasonable' (from my point of view), and if they are not, then they are going to be gone.

[austin-steve]

Realtors love to tout the myth that people like HOAs.

Hi,

All I'm saying is if a buyer decides to exclude HOA homes from their home search, there will be far fewer homes to select from, and even fewer newer homes. That's it. None of your black helecopter diatribe changes that basic and simple fact.

I'm not a proponent of HOA's, nor am I against them, but I do believe buyers like to find a home that best fits their needs. A buyer is more likely to accomplish that if they don't irrationally exclude the vast majority of available homes. OK?

Steve

[IC_deLight]

"irrationally exclude" kind of indicates your leanings, Steve. No offense, but you didn't address any of the issues raised. Maligning the messenger to divert attention from the problem is a poor but oft-used tactic when it comes to HOA matters. Apparently Buyers are irrational if they want to exclude any home in an HOA.

Rather odd that "not less than 2 car garage" or "not less than 1800 square feet" are somehow rational in your book, but "no HOA" is labeled "irrational". "No HOA" is just as important a need and in fact may one of the most fundamental requirements of many purchasers.

Trainwreck's neighborhood has fortunately apparently not contracted the cancer going around with these HOAs. You know, transfer fees, private fines, secret meetings, secret recordkeeping, only allowing some people to vote, only allowing some people to be candidates, threats of foreclosure to extort fines and management company fees from homeowners, Board members taking large sums of monies from the HOA accounts, etc. These things seem to have a high correlation with subdivisions that use "professional" management companies. Perhaps Trainwreck has avoided the problem by avoiding the use of these management companies.

All of these events and more have occurred in my subdivision. Don't even think about "voting" them out of office. Ours made sure that nominees have to be approved by the current Board members before being candidates. Not surprisingly, all positions are unopposed in "elections" because the incumbents decide whether they will be opposed or who their successor will be in any "election". Rest assured it goes downhill.

Maybe some people aren't interested in perpetual liens, unlimited assessments, transfer fees, no record of where monies are going, Architectural Committees, private fines, corrupt elections, "rules" they never agreed to, - all of which occur as a result of mandatory membership HOAs. To cast prospective purchasers desirous of avoiding such things as "irrational" is absurd.

[HappyTexan]

IC_deLight, not every HOA is as you describe. Sounds to me like you are in one such as you describe and are very unhappy.

I'm in an HOA and am very happy with it. I made my purchase as an informed buyer and read all the documents before I even submitted an offer.

There are different levels of HOA's in those subdivisions that have them. Don't assume every HOA is run the way you describe.

[IC_deLight]

The person that started this thread was looking for a non-HOA home. A Realtor had the gall to suggest that searching for a non-HOA home "irrationally" excluded options suggested that the type of activity described as reasons to avoid HOAs was a "black helicopter diatribe". People seeking a non-HOA home are not "irrational" and neither is the desire to seek a home that is not in one.

The laws have been written in favor of the HOAs - not the members. The very nature of the HOA system tends to attract the bad actors into director and officer positions in the first place. Hopefully you won't be subjected to these experiences - but don't count on it. The threat that an HOA represents to your family, home, and bank account is too great to ever willingly subject oneself to it again.

As far as I'm concerned, there is no reason to believe that the next HOA won't be as bad or worse than the last one - so the better solution is to avoid the HOA in the first place.

[jenkirk]

There is a nice non-HOA community mostly under $200K in northern Buda called Cimmaron Park and Cimarron Acres. The lots range in size from .5 acre to 1 acre. The homes were built from the 80's to the late 90's. It is about 10 minutes or less down the road from Shady Hollow in SW Austin.

There are some deed restrictions and there are a few neighbors who will write you letters if you let your home go downhill. (Part of why it is a well maintained neighborhood for the most part.)

I think it is a great neighborhood with a good commute to downtown and lots of trees. And of course, no HOA.

[Biscuits]

To my knowledge, none of the single family homes within 78703 ($400k and up) have HOAs.

All of the older Central Austin neighborhoods do have "Neighborhood Associations" and although I am sure they would absolutely love to have the authority of an HOA, they thankfully do not.

Granted, most people in the area are pretty competitive when it comest to lawn care and trash can removal but it is nice to have the option not to conform (or to have any fear of an association run amuck).

[Taterhead]

What are transfer fees? can you explain a little more.

We have HOA here in Phoenix, but we vote for who we want in them. They do drive around and send out letters if trash cans are left out and such things but we have never had a problem with them.