10% rule and school strategy (Austin, West: job, house, universities)

[chickenfry]

Public Universities and more specifically admission to one of the "flagship" campus (UT-Austin/Texas A&M). Both UT/A&M have multiple schools---UT-Dallas, etc.
The rule is a "remedy" for what the federal courts saw as a lack of diversity in admissions.

[centralaustinite]

The top ten rule applies only to graduates of Texas public high schools.

[mimimomx3]

Originally Posted by Dr.Mom

"Then I read about the 10% rule, where a kid in the top 10% of any school automatically gets admitted to a state school."


Does this rule apply to private schools as well, or solely to public schools?

No, all schools. Many private schools don't rank, so they go into the pool where UT must analyze the application based on other factors. Much better, in my opinion.

[mimimomx3]

My opinion on the 10% rule is that it does not admit the 'best' students in Texas. Not all high schools are the same, not all GPAs are calculated the same way, etc. I really do think that UT needs to review each applicant holistically, not just as a number on a piece of paper.

My advice is to pick the school that best matches your child's learning style and interests. Choosing an inferior school just to get into UT may backfire- too many variables. Good luck.

[hal512]

Wouldn't you want your child to go to the school/college with one of the top programs for their major? UT doesn't have every major and it doesn't do well in all of them either. I'm not saying UT is not an excellent school in many fields, but if your child wants to be an engineer I would not send them to UT when Purdue and Michigan are the top recruited schools for engineering. Univ. of Chicago has the #1 rated law school so why would you not want to send your child there if they want to be a lawyer. I applied to programs all over the nation they were the top 5 rated programs for my major and my children will do the same based on what they want to do. I understand in state vs. out of state tuition but that can easy be overcome in a year. Just MHO.

[Biscuits]

Originally Posted by hal512

I'm not saying UT is not an excellent school in many fields, but if your child wants to be an engineer I would not send them to UT when Purdue and Michigan are the top recruited schools for engineering. Univ. of Chicago has the #1 rated law school so why would you not want to send your child there if they want to be a lawyer.

As someone who obsessed over the Graduate and Undergraduate Gourman Reports as a high school student 20-years ago and someone who still can't help looking at the annual US News & World Report rankings; I don't recall any of those schools ever being considered the absolute top in those fields.


2008 US News & World Report Graduate School Rankings (which should - but not always - closely mirror their undergraduate program):

ENGINEERING

1) MIT
2) Stanford
3) Cal
4) Georgia Tech
5) Illinois
6) Cal Tech
7) Carnegie Mellon
8) USC
9) Michigan
9) Cornell
11) UCSD
11) Texas
13) Texas A&M

LAW

1) Yale
2) Harvard
2) Stanford
4) Columbia
5) NYU
6) Cal
7) Chicago
7) Penn
9) Northwestern
9) Cornell
9) Michigan
9) Virginia
12) Cornell
12) Duke
14) Georgetown
15) Vanderbilt
16) Texas
16) UCLA

I also disagree with the assertion that it's currently better to be top-11% from Westlake than top-10% from Reagan.

First, unless you are the top one or two graduates from an average-sized Texas public high school (maybe you can quadrupole that figure if you are talking about the very best large public school [i.e., Highland Park H.S.]), you realistically have no chance at an Ivy League-caliber school. That leaves schools like UT as the next best obtainable choice. Factor in in-state tuition and that leaves Texas & Texas A&M as the best obtainable choices in most situations.

Top 11% from Westlake/Anywhere = Texas Tech
Top 10% from Reagan/Anywhere = UT

The choice is fairly clear to me but it does require sacrifice. I believe I would currently offer my children the Westlake/Austin High/Anderson education with the agreement that if they were not in the top-10% entering their senior year - that they would be transferring to "less familiar surroundings" for their final year (with a clean GPA). There is some very strong motivation built into that offer and the results should ensure top-10% either way.

And let's be honest, that Senior year experience at at the stronger school is not more important than admission to the better university. Admission to a top graduate/professional program (the ultimate prize) can hinge on the quality of the undergraduate record and UT is almost the minimum acceptable launching pad for a modern-day student with Harvard Law aspirations.

To summarize, my plan would allow someone a realistic chance at Harvard graduate school, while the other philosophy may get them a shot at UT graduate school if they do very well with their studies at Texas Tech.

[Biscuits]

To go one big step further; if you honestly want what is best for your child's academic future, you do what ever is necessary to get them enrolled in the elite prep schools by the 9th grade. It is at schools like G20 Schools - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia that their worst case scenario is admission to a school like UT.

[traceyr13]

Originally Posted by Biscuits

First, unless you are the top one or two graduates from an average-sized Texas public high school (maybe you can quadrupole that figure if you are talking about the very best large public school [i.e., Highland Park H.S.]), you realistically have no chance at an Ivy League-caliber school. That leaves schools like UT as the next best obtainable choice. Factor in in-state tuition and that leaves Texas & Texas A&M as the best obtainable choices in most situations.

Top 11% from Westlake/Anywhere = Texas Tech
Top 10% from Reagan/Anywhere = UT

The choice is fairly clear to me but it does require sacrifice. I believe I would currently offer my children the Westlake/Austin High/Anderson education with the agreement that if they were not in the top-10% entering their senior year - that they would be transferring to "less familiar surroundings" for their final year (with a clean GPA). There is some very strong motivation built into that offer and the results should ensure top-10% either way.

And let's be honest, that Senior year experience at at the stronger school is not more important than admission to the better university. Admission to a top graduate/professional program (the ultimate prize) can hinge on the quality of the undergraduate record and UT is almost the minimum acceptable launching pad for a modern-day student with Harvard Law aspirations.

To summarize, my plan would allow someone a realistic chance at Harvard graduate school, while the other philosophy may get them a shot at UT graduate school if they do very well with their studies at Texas Tech.

Wow. I really disagree with several of your assertions, and wonder how much experience you have with getting students into top-caliber schools, or how many admissions directors you speak to on a regular basis. I have worked with well over 1000 students over the past 10 years on college admissions, and had numerous meetings with admissions directors, as well as attending annual professional school counselor conferences.

While being ranked as the top one or two students certainly can help in gaining admission to an Ivy League school, it is not required. Except in rare circumstances of athletic or artistic talent, you do have to be in the top 5%, certainly, but I have had many students gain admission to the most elite Ivy League schools who were in the top 3-4% of their class.

Also, I disagree that "schools like UT" are the "next most obainable choice". There is an entire tier of incredible private schools who are considered "sub-Ivies" by graduate schools and employers. I graduated from Georgetown University for undergrad, and was not only accepted into Ivy League graduate schools, but was told by employers (who hired me) that having Georgetown on my resume got me the interview. I have heard similar sentiments from former students who attended schools like Boston College, Boston University, Johns Hopkins, Middlebury, Haverford, etc, etc, etc. I'm not denying that UT is an excellent school, I just disagree with your expressed attitude that if you're not going to Ivy League, the next step is to automatically shoot for a quality large public school. That may not be the best choice for a student for a variety of reasons.

Furthermore, your claim that you *need* an Ivy League undergraduate education, or at the "bare minimum" a school like UT to get into an Ivy League graduate school is just plain false. I knew many fellow students at my Ivy League graduate school who did not come from such schools.

Finally, I'm sorry, but your "strategy" for your children regarding college just makes me sad. I hope over time you come to view their adolescence and school experiences as more than just a meticulous and studied plan to get them into an Ivy League graduate school.

[wgg]

The 10% rule only applies to public universities. UT is the main school affected, with over 80% of freshmen admitted under this rule. There is resistance to changing the rule from both rural and poor urban school districts, so there is a good chance the rule will not be overturned this session. Or it may just be tweaked a little to be top 7-8%.

[mimimomx3]

Originally Posted by hal512

Wouldn't you want your child to go to the school/college with one of the top programs for their major? UT doesn't have every major and it doesn't do well in all of them either. I'm not saying UT is not an excellent school in many fields, but if your child wants to be an engineer I would not send them to UT when Purdue and Michigan are the top recruited schools for engineering. Univ. of Chicago has the #1 rated law school so why would you not want to send your child there if they want to be a lawyer. I applied to programs all over the nation they were the top 5 rated programs for my major and my children will do the same based on what they want to do. I understand in state vs. out of state tuition but that can easy be overcome in a year. Just MHO.

The UT system is an excellent choice, almost all majors are exceptional. It also has a great engineering department, actually tied with Purdue for #9.
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US News.com Ranking (scores 5.0 = highest) for Undergraduate Engineering Programs, 2008
World Science & Engineering University Portal: America's Best Undergraduate Engineering Programs 2008

1. Massachusetts Institute of Technology (4.9)

2. Stanford University (CA)

3. University of California–Berkeley *

4. California Institute of Technology

5. Georgia Institute of Technology *

5. University of Illinois–Urbana-Champaign *

7. Cornell University (NY)

7. University of Michigan–Ann Arbor *

9. Carnegie Mellon University (PA)

9. Purdue University – West Lafayette (IN)*

9. University of Texas–Austin *

12. Princeton University (NJ)

13. University of Wisconsin–Madison *

14. Johns Hopkins University (MD)

14. Northwestern University (IL)

14. Virginia Tech *

17. Pennsylvania State University – University Park *

17. Rice University (TX)

17. Texas A&M University – College Station *

20. Columbia University (NY)

20. Rensselaer Polytechnic Inst. (NY)

20. University of California–Los Angeles *

20. University of Minnesota–Twin Cities *

20. University of Washington *