10% rule and school strategy (Austin, Combine: sales, lawyers, law school)

[ditto1]

Originally Posted by mimimomx3

I love those stories!
The UT system does have a 'CAP' program, where if you don't get into UT Austin or AM, you are guaranteed admission to another UT system school- UT San Antonio, El Paso, Dallas- and if you have a 3.5 GPA (B) after 30 hours, you can transfer to UTA. That's what they called 'getting CAPed'.
I think it's very generous.

Sounds like your breeding mediocrity in Texas schools! Good for everyone else who goes to college outside of Texas. If the rule is not changed it will damage the reputation of Texas higher education.
"There are so many “top 10 percenters” are filling up places at the Austin campus that there are few spots available for other highly qualified applicants. Today, 81 percent of all students admitted to the university finished in the top 10 percent of their high school class. Many students at the state’s best high schools who finish in the top 20 percent of their high school class, but not the top 10 percent, are being denied admittance to the University of Texas. As a result, some state legislators would like to repeal the 10 percent law, believing that it is bringing down the overall quality of the student body."

[Austinitegirl]

Originally Posted by Trainwreck20

The topic was about the 10% rule and getting in to UT, lets keep it reasonably close to that area....

In my personal opinion, the 10% rule will be replaced sometime during the next legislature, or possibly the one after that (2-4 years). Not telling what the criteria will be then.

I wouldn't hold your breath. I work for UT and have been involved in MANY discussions surrounding this topic. The Texas Legislature has too much pressure from it's constituency to keep the rule in place. While most UT-affiliated people (or those interested in sending their kids there) agree that the 10% rule is not necessarily in the best interest of this particular campus, it is a boon for other universities around the state and really allows under-represented student groups to get into universities where they otherwise wouldn't have had a chance. A large majority of those "under-represented" groups are minorities, students who come from a low socio-economic background or first generation college students.

As long as constituents around the state are telling their congressman to keep it in place - it will stay, but it is creating a "critical mass" for this campus and (in my opinion) creating a strain on the faculty and facilities that undermine the quality of education students receive.

Many of you probably aren't aware of this, but the space situation, in particular is very serious. Staff members are literally being housed in closets, copy rooms and hallways to make room for more faculty (and the staff that have to support those faculty) to accommodate more students, who are taking classes in basements, cubby holes and temporary buildings.

[Biscuits]

Originally Posted by Austinitegirl

I wouldn't hold your breath. I work for UT and have been involved in MANY discussions surrounding this topic. The Texas Legislature has too much pressure from it's constituency to keep the rule in place. While most UT-affiliated people (or those interested in sending their kids there) agree that the 10% rule is not necessarily in the best interest of this particular campus, it is a boon for other universities around the state and really allows under-represented student groups to get into universities where they otherwise wouldn't have had a chance. A large majority of those "under-represented" groups are minorities, students who come from a low socio-economic background or first generation college students.

As long as constituents around the state are telling their congressman to keep it in place - it will stay, but it is creating a "critical mass" for this campus and (in my opinion) creating a strain on the faculty and facilities that undermine the quality of education students receive.

Many of you probably aren't aware of this, but the space situation, in particular is very serious. Staff members are literally being housed in closets, copy rooms and hallways to make room for more faculty (and the staff that have to support those faculty) to accommodate more students, who are taking classes in basements, cubby holes and temporary buildings.

I agree. If you are a student of demographics - or simply get out of the house once a week - then it is quite hard not to notice that Texas is becoming more and more Hispanic. This fact will eventually be fully reflected in the Texas Legislature and the laws (especially this one) will be to the benefit of the Hispanic majority.

[Austin97]

Originally Posted by Biscuits

I agree. If you are a student of demographics - or simply get out of the house once a week - then it is quite hard not to notice that Texas is becoming more and more Hispanic. This fact will eventually be fully reflected in the Texas Legislature and the laws (especially this one) will be to the benefit of the Hispanic majority.

That is a pretty bold and racist (or ethnist) comment. Or are you saying all the laws that exist today are primarily to benefit the white majority? Or are you saying that only hispanics are incapable of recognizing laws that benefit us overall?

Ultimately if a university is forced to let in unqualified students, then its reputation will fall. Those qualified students that cannot get in will go somewhere else.

[Biscuits]

Originally Posted by Austin97

That is a pretty bold and racist (or ethnist) comment. Or are you saying all the laws that exist today are primarily to benefit the white majority? Or are you saying that only hispanics are incapable of recognizing laws that benefit us overall?

Ultimately if a university is forced to let in unqualified students, then its reputation will fall. Those qualified students that cannot get in will go somewhere else.

Yes, I am saying laws tend to benefit the majority. Is that news to you?

[Big G]

Originally Posted by achtungpv

The saying goes A students work for C students since they don't have the social skills to get ahead.

Originally Posted by austin-steve

In short, the "A students works for C students" comment made by someone else is evidently how it often plays out, for reasons already outlined.

Steve

Well, it can occasionally happen that way, but don't count on it.
The key to success isn't being educated, it's being smart and working your buns off, with an emphasis on the latter.

I've seen this idea bandied about before, but I'm highly skeptical. Neither my wife nor I have ever worked for a C student. (Well, except when I was a graveyard-shift dishwasher one summer back in HS - good times.) The BMOC of my college class was straight-As - frat boy, lots of friends, girls drooling over him, played hockey, etc. He's now head physician of a large hospital's emergency room. Meanwhile, there were lots of computer-game jockeys and MRS degree candidates pulling down Cs. I haven't seen any of them in the pages of Forbes lately. All in all, I think there's little correlation between social skills and GPAs. Getting drunk instead of studying does not make you a master of negotiation.

Setting aside outside circumstances, your "job" at college is to get good grades. Someone pulling Cs isn't doing a good job at his/her "job". Perhaps school isn't their thing, but more likely they're just not good at getting the task at hand accomplished, whatever it is.

Most people in charge of businesses, large and small, are used to succeeding at whatever they do. Pulling down crummy grades is not succeeding. I would bet very few of the "winners" in business have college degrees with poor GPAs. You're probably more likely to find either highly successful students or just dropouts - folks who said "Well, I'm not able to succeed at this game, so let me find something I'm better at".

[houstoner]

Originally Posted by ditto1

Sounds like your breeding mediocrity in Texas schools! Good for everyone else who goes to college outside of Texas. If the rule is not changed it will damage the reputation of Texas higher education.
"There are so many “top 10 percenters” are filling up places at the Austin campus that there are few spots available for other highly qualified applicants. Today, 81 percent of all students admitted to the university finished in the top 10 percent of their high school class. Many students at the state’s best high schools who finish in the top 20 percent of their high school class, but not the top 10 percent, are being denied admittance to the University of Texas. As a result, some state legislators would like to repeal the 10 percent law, believing that it is bringing down the overall quality of the student body."

What's really awesome about the bogus 10% rule is the fairly common practice of having students transfer to low-performing (usually minority) high schools for their senior year just so they can get into UT or A&M. The competition isn't as stiff so they make the cut easily. The sense of entitlement some parents breed into their kids regarding getting into these schools is really amazing.

[Biscuits]

Originally Posted by houstoner

What's really awesome about the bogus 10% rule is the fairly common practice of having students transfer to low-performing (usually minority) high schools for their senior year just so they can get into UT or A&M. The competition isn't as stiff so they make the cut easily. The sense of entitlement some parents breed into their kids regarding getting into these schools is really amazing.

Seems like a perfectly appropriate way to work within the current system.

What is the result of that one academically more prepared student transferring? I believe it is a more qualified student being admitted to UT or A&M while one less qualified student gets bumped out of the top-10% and actually has to be admitted on their true merits.

Now that I think of it, this is how the top-10% law may get repealed. Simply have the hundreds of academically superior students who are currently ranked 11%-20% transfer to the low-performing schools.

After a couple of years of that, you can say goodbye to the top-10% law.

Some forward-thinking counselor could make a good living of having seminars regarding who should transfer where...

[houstoner]

Originally Posted by Biscuits

Seems like a perfectly appropriate way to work within the current system.

What is the result of that one academically more prepared student transferring? I believe it is a more qualified student being admitted to UT or A&M while one less qualified student gets bumped out of the top-10% and actually has to be admitted on their true merits.

Now that I think of it, this is how the top-10% law may get repealed. Simply have the hundreds of academically superior students who are currently ranked 11%-20% transfer to the low-performing schools.

After a couple of years of that, you can say goodbye to the top-10% law.

Some forward-thinking counselor could make a good living of having seminars regarding who should transfer where...

This has already been going on for years.

[traceyr13]

Originally Posted by Biscuits

Some forward-thinking counselor could make a good living of having seminars regarding who should transfer where...

Interesting...I like to think of myself as forward thinking, but I can't imagine ever pushing this agenda on any of my students.