What law schools should I be looking at? (lawyer, income)

[ocean2026]

Bartonhlls many attorneys go into private practice and none of my criminal or divorce clients ever seemed to ask where I went to school- once a year maybe just for conversation sake. When I was elected DA years ago -the same - no one cared. It does matter for certain firms but I knew I wasn't interested in that.

Therefore when I applied to law school - I had my own complex formula for deciding which would be my first choice.

I wanted to go the best school in whatever state I applied.
I wanted to try the midwest ( I graduated from Cal-Berkeley had gone to UTEP and was from the East Coast so midwest got highest weighting.
I wanted a school with a decent female to male ratio-- ok I was young.
I wanted a smaller school.
I wanted a school with a great college basketball program as I have always been a big fan.


The mistake I made was applying to 17 schools and as they were accepting me - they were asking for immediate deposits and I wasn't that wealthy. Indiana Univ was cool and when I told them my dilemma said - "its ok take your time- you don't have to send one" Kansas said if you don't come this year we will accept you next year. They had a red application. UT was cheapest but they gave me a hard time about my Texas residency and were pretty impersonal and the school was huge.

Indiana accepted me for summer while I was still waiting to hear from Harvard and Michigan.

I went to Indiana and loved it and witnessed probably the best basketball team in NCAA history. They didn't lose a single game and beat the #2 team in the nation 3 times, while creaming UCLA in the NCAA championship. Basketball fans will know what year that was.

Mistakes I made. A. Cold weather is more than just low temp numbers - it was freezing. B. Going to class was boring and wanting a small school with small classes although noble, was a poor choice. When I did attend class - kids would often break into applause which would cause the professor to make his best attempt to nail me. C. Don't apply to too many - in those days application fees were cheap and it was so exciting to be waiting on all those choices,however I wasn't rich and the deposits would have killed me. D Thinking at the time that looking for a university with a high female -male ratio showed a bit of immaturity on my part. Wrong- I don't remember the names of many professors but those girls were hot!

[loves2read]

the honesty on this forum is truly refreshing--

I think you will really be struggling in law school--it calls for totally different kind of through process than your degree--only you know if you are really capable of doing any better than your GPA--and if you were, why didn't you anyway--not much hands-on creating ad campaigns and probably group brainstorming of ideas--
law school is pretty much memorization and application and great writing...and being very good at verbal response...

do you want to go into grad school vs the cruel world of business--maybe you should consider something to broaden your skills--like tech writing or computer skills in video production or web design...

[cabolissa]

Originally Posted by ocean2026

Bartonhlls many attorneys go into private practice and none of my criminal or divorce clients ever seemed to ask where I went to school- once a year maybe just for conversation sake. When I was elected DA years ago -the same - no one cared. It does matter for certain firms but I knew I wasn't interested in that.

Good point, and I think this is exactly in-line with my response. Many people don't want to touch criminal law/personal injury/divorce or government with a ten foot pole. It's all subjective.

The $150K/yr first year attys and $500K/year partners are working in corporate/intellectual property/mergers & acquisitions/securities, etc. I suppose I was considering those the "decent jobs" that the OP was referring to.

Also to the OP, I think it's crucial to be honest with yourself about how much you like writing. You'll spend 90% of your day researching and writing, and the other 10% interacting with clients, etc. Even if you're a litigator (which is a whole different breed), you're spending much time writing and preparing for the 10% of time spent in court presenting your case. You must NOT be a procrastinator, as deadlines are your job. You have to be detail oriented, because nuances of language can make or break you. You have to enjoy spending most of your day at a desk in a quiet office. It's NOT glamorous. But it is very compelling, interesting, and challenging.

It takes a certain type of person, and if you are that type, all the power to you. It's a great field. Just so you know, I got into a tier 3 school due to my LSAT score, and after going for a year (with good grades) I realized my fate explained by my posts. I was/am interested in Intellectual Property law. So I decided to get my paralegal certificate at an ABA approved university instead and now I'm making more than some of my colleagues who I went to law school with. With 1/3 the student loan debt! And I work in a great firm. I never would have been able to do that if I stayed in a tier 3 law school.

[Jennibc]

Originally Posted by cabolissa

Good point, and I think this is exactly in-line with my response. Many people don't want to touch criminal law/personal injury/divorce or government with a ten foot pole. It's all subjective.

The $150K/yr first year attys and $500K/year partners are working in corporate/intellectual property/mergers & acquisitions/securities, etc. I suppose I was considering those the "decent jobs" that the OP was referring to.

Also to the OP, I think it's crucial to be honest with yourself about how much you like writing. You'll spend 90% of your day researching and writing, and the other 10% interacting with clients, etc. Even if you're a litigator (which is a whole different breed), you're spending much time writing and preparing for the 10% of time spent in court presenting your case. You must NOT be a procrastinator, as deadlines are your job. You have to be detail oriented, because nuances of language can make or break you. You have to enjoy spending most of your day at a desk in a quiet office. It's NOT glamorous. But it is very compelling, interesting, and challenging.

It takes a certain type of person, and if you are that type, all the power to you. It's a great field. Just so you know, I got into a tier 3 school due to my LSAT score, and after going for a year (with good grades) I realized my fate explained by my posts. I was/am interested in Intellectual Property law. So I decided to get my paralegal certificate at an ABA approved university instead and now I'm making more than some of my colleagues who I went to law school with. With 1/3 the student loan debt! And I work in a great firm. I never would have been able to do that if I stayed in a tier 3 law school.

Even tier one doesn't guarantee you anything. I went to a tier one school, graduated with honors and could not find work up in Seattle (where I graduated). Of course, it didn't help that I was older than average. Very few of my OTA classmates found work up there. Most ended up moving to CA, one even went to Germany. We finally moved here and I am debating whether to sit for the bar here at all because the legal market here is saturated as well.

Just so I don't incur the wrath of some of the "don't move to Austin without a job" proponents on this board, my husband secured employment before we moved and we were well aware of how competitive the legal market is down here. But as I like to say, sitting by a swimming pool in eighty degrees while unemployed is far more fun than being unemployed in dark, dreary Seattle

[achtungpv]

Wife's best friend graduated from a top tier law school in the 90s. She was top 10% and took a $95K offer. Her friend, same year but top 25% had a best offer of $45K. If you can't finish at the top of your class, I'd have a hard time investing the money.

FWIW, she absolutely hates being an attorney. She hates the the Type A people, the hours, the life. When she had a kid, she was blackballed at her firm and was no longer on track to become a partner since she couldn't commit to 80 hour weeks anymore. Next year will probably be her last year and she'll get a teaching certificate which is what she originally planned for her English undergrad degree anyway.

[loves2read]

jsut as long as your friend's wife understands that the Type A people, the hours, the life--that is all true for teaching as well--except the type A's are usually either the parents or the legislature who expect you to perform miracles at times...
my son has two friends he went to hs with--one was an avg student--went to small private church college--got english degree/teaching credentials but wanted to be singer/musician--went to Nashville and spent 3 yrs trying to break into the business--became a protege of sorts of Trisha Yearwood's first husband -- got some recognition but never really made it--went to Texas Tech law school--his uncle was former president or regent--or something-- but I think his grades would have worked anyway--made law school review two years in row--now working for law firm in small town in west tx--he and his wife love it--have two kids and he is deacon in the church--he might not be making the big bucks but seems to be doing well because it is the biggest law firm in town...not a partner yet but probably will be...

2nd friend married in college--his wife was pushing him to dental school--he did not want to go--they got divorced--he went to texas weslyan law school--new and probably one of the least-regarded in TX--did fine in school--really smart guy--went to England to study after getting law degree--now he is at Columbia Law in NYC--don't know about his financial status--he has married again and his wife is working in NYC--but going to Columbia to get his JSD I think--wants to teach law...

[elizabethn2009]

The general rule: Go top 14 (top 14 ranked law schools in the country), go public (state school, in-state tuition, such as UT) or don't go! There's a huge glut of attorneys, and law school debt can be crippling. Going to a low-ranked law school such as South Texas is career suicide. Please check out the following articles:

Hard Case: Job Market Wanes for U.S. Lawyers - WSJ.com

New Law Grads Urged to Have Backup Plans | ABA Journal - Law News Now

Also: www.abovethelaw.com

www.jdunderground.com

[ROY DUBOSE]

the law school at TEXAS TECH is nationally recognized as one of the best in the nation -- lil bush proves to some that you don't need to graduate #1 to succeed

[TexasGirl@Heart]

Originally Posted by Jennibc

Just so I don't incur the wrath of some of the "don't move to Austin without a job" proponents on this board, my husband secured employment before we moved and we were well aware of how competitive the legal market is down here. But as I like to say, sitting by a swimming pool in eighty degrees while unemployed is far more fun than being unemployed in dark, dreary Seattle

I LOVE those sentiments!

[Jennibc]

Originally Posted by TexasGirl@Heart

I LOVE those sentiments!

Funny you should quote me, it's over 80 and am sitting in my suit as we just got back from the neighborhood pool. Yes, unemployment in Austin sure beats unemployment in other parts of the country.