The coming hi-rise condo crash in Austin (Houston, Dallas: cul-de-sac, 2009)

[inthecut]

Originally Posted by future_itisnow

Completely agree with both of your posts here inthecut.

One thing that I actually hope to see come out of this current recession/depression (depending on where you live) is a sort of shift in social conscience and a level setting of values...not morals, but priorities.

Is it possible that people will actually stop or slow down with the keeping up with the jones' attitude that has been so prevalent over the past 10-20 years and reflect on what is really important? If so, I believe Austin could very well be in for a shift to a sort of throwback old Austin spirit.

I also agree that high-rises downtown do not represent what is special or unique about Austin...that is found in the earthy/funky/green/liberal folks that have been here long before the boom.

This is why I am attracted to the city myself.

Sorry, now back to your regularly scheduled post.

You don't have to agree with what I posted, but you bring up good points yourself, future......I was sort of looking for a throwback to a downsized Austin...trends go back and forth...look for a trend away from the canyoning of streets DT and thereabouts, and back to rehabbing, retrolooks, and living on a human scale.....actually, the canyon thing is getting very gaudy and 80's/Donald Trumpish.......it would be a very great thing if the overhang of DT condos convinces developers to stick with the old human scale thing......which helps sell Austin anyway......is that NOT what they are TRYING to do?.......Sell the eclecticism and earth-centered vibe, and stop making Austin into Dallas/Houston lite...

[pbnj07]

Sorry, but I like 'em. Maybe it's because I'm from the NYC metro area and I just can't shake it.

My wife and I plan on selling our house here in the burbs and moving downtown when our son goes to college in 7 years. We're considering a high-rise condo.

The more trendy and expensive it gets to live downtown, the more my house in the surrounding suburbs will appreciate in value. That's the way I look at it.

[watchoverme]

I'm personally hoping they will turn some of the condos into apartments and it will bring the overall renting price in downtown Austin down a bit. Renting in downtown Austin is very steep, comparing it to Houston and Dallas for instance, and considering the size of the city- so it would be nice to see a bit more affordable options downtown.

Also, I don't know why people are always assuming that people are trying to make Austin something it isn't. Austin is rapidly growing with all of the businesses and companies moving there and choosing it as their headquarters. Obviously, with that comes employees, and with a population boom, you need housing. High rises house a lot of people without too much sprawl. I personally like to see high rises- better for the environment rather than spread out subdivisions tearing down trees, and allows a lot of people to live close to work.

[inthecut]

Originally Posted by watchoverme

I'm personally hoping they will turn some of the condos into apartments and it will bring the overall renting price in downtown Austin down a bit. Renting in downtown Austin is very steep, comparing it to Houston and Dallas for instance, and considering the size of the city- so it would be nice to see a bit more affordable options downtown.

Also, I don't know why people are always assuming that people are trying to make Austin something it isn't. Austin is rapidly growing with all of the businesses and companies moving there and choosing it as their headquarters. Obviously, with that comes employees, and with a population boom, you need housing. High rises house a lot of people without too much sprawl. I personally like to see high rises- better for the environment rather than spread out subdivisions tearing down trees, and allows a lot of people to live close to work.

You have a point...Austin is pretty much a sum total of what everyone wants it to be.....largely flavored with where the relos are coming from themselves......personally, I'm from Chicago originally, and really don't want the high-rise thing in Austin....If i wanted it, I could have stayed out there....Austin appealed to me because it was on a lower scale, earthy, funky, and unique.......I strongly feel that Austin loses more of that the more it goes high-rise.......unless they plan on going 100% high-rise, they will always be Houston, NYC, Chicago lite anyway, and will never compete one-on-one with the same......and more to the point, Austin does not have any rapid transit critical mass that would enable the same, that Chicago, NYC, and the like have.....

I think Austin is transitioning into a different city, and many long term locals rue it very much......

They very much could kill the goose that laid the golden egg if they destroy Austin's low-key ambience........it is really Austin's main claim to fame, and becomes just another imitation wanna-be place if they go the
high-rise canyon route

[TexasHorseLady]

Originally Posted by inthecut

They very much could kill the goose that laid the golden egg if they destroy Austin's low-key ambience........it is really Austin's main claim to fame, and becomes just another imitation wanna-be place if they go the high-rise canyon route

This. Absolutely, this. In the rush for familiarity, a lot of folks that aren't from here (developers, as well as people who move here not because they love Austin, but because it's "in") are,as you say, killing the very things that make people want to move here. And then, when it's gone, they'll move on and find another goose to cook.

[inthecut]

Originally Posted by TexasHorseLady

This. Absolutely, this. In the rush for familiarity, a lot of folks that aren't from here (developers, as well as people who move here not because they love Austin, but because it's "in") are,as you say, killing the very things that make people want to move here. And then, when it's gone, they'll move on and find another goose to cook.

THL, I've seen you support the same for months on these posts......so true........the "moving on" part is what scares me...indeed, they usually DO bail, leaving the damage......its all about a quick buck....actually, THL, the best thing that COULD HAPPEN is for the DT condo market to slow down.......

BTW, is there a master plan for Austin per future growth and zoning? I thought I saw one on the web a while back......If I drew one up, it would
have mandates per height restrictions, very specific mandates to blend into old architectural styles and neighborhoods, and a proper ratio of condos to unattached units............and it sure as hell wouldn't look like it does now!

[AustinExPat]

Originally Posted by TexasHorseLady

My personal petty gripe with the Austonian is that they didn't get the name of residents of the city right - we're Austinites, folks, and putting that name on there confuses a lot of people new to the city.
No matter how 'upscale" it might sound, it's like fingernails on a blackboard.

Could this be the inspiration for the name?

The Houstonian Condos | 121 N. Post Oak | Houston Real Estate

Not that the two buildings look anything alike.

[thesonofgray]

Originally Posted by inthecut

THL, I've seen you support the same for months on these posts......so true........the "moving on" part is what scares me...indeed, they usually DO bail, leaving the damage......its all about a quick buck....actually, THL, the best thing that COULD HAPPEN is for the DT condo market to slow down.......

BTW, is there a master plan for Austin per future growth and zoning? I thought I saw one on the web a while back......If I drew one up, it would
have mandates per height restrictions, very specific mandates to blend into old architectural styles and neighborhoods, and a proper ratio of condos to unattached units............and it sure as hell wouldn't look like it does now!

I'm not sure if this particular point is what you're so averse to, but why are you so against higher density?

American cities have too low a density, IMO (at least MOST of them do). Anything within reason we can do to increase Austin's density is great. That doesn't necessarily mean high-rises, but something like the transition happening in West Campus works wonderfully as well. It increases pedestrian traffic, shuns big-box mentality due to simple physical restraints, and, in turn, provides an environment for smaller and more local businesses to thrive. It also allows for multi-purpose buildings. No matter how you try, you can't get that from bungalow neighborhoods.

Will there be complaints over specific structures and their appearance? Of course. I don't know any place where there isn't differences in architectural preferences. But I don't think one hideously colored mid-rise on Guadalupe (the Venue, anyone?) or one glass behemoth on Congress will ruin the entire City for good.

As Austin continues to grow (and anything otherwise would be BAD), we'll need to think of it less as a monolithic entity/community/social scene and more of a collection of neighborhoods. The high-rises in downtown don't define the 78731 neighborhood I live in, nor do the mid-rises in the university area, nor do the funky and hip shops in SoCo, nor does the cookie-cutter suburbia of the north, nor does the local Latin flair of east-central Austin.

Anyways, I think Austin is doing relatively well with its growth, considering the tendencies of our other urban neighbors. I don't mind the high-rises downtown, although I'd like to have a word with some of their architects.

[hank0604]

Originally Posted by thesonofgray

I'm not sure if this particular point is what you're so averse to, but why are you so against higher density?

American cities have too low a density, IMO (at least MOST of them do). Anything within reason we can do to increase Austin's density is great. That doesn't necessarily mean high-rises, but something like the transition happening in West Campus works wonderfully as well. It increases pedestrian traffic, shuns big-box mentality due to simple physical restraints, and, in turn, provides an environment for smaller and more local businesses to thrive. It also allows for multi-purpose buildings. No matter how you try, you can't get that from bungalow neighborhoods.

Will there be complaints over specific structures and their appearance? Of course. I don't know any place where there isn't differences in architectural preferences. But I don't think one hideously colored mid-rise on Guadalupe (the Venue, anyone?) or one glass behemoth on Congress will ruin the entire City for good.

As Austin continues to grow (and anything otherwise would be BAD), we'll need to think of it less as a monolithic entity/community/social scene and more of a collection of neighborhoods. The high-rises in downtown don't define the 78731 neighborhood I live in, nor do the mid-rises in the university area, nor do the funky and hip shops in SoCo, nor does the cookie-cutter suburbia of the north, nor does the local Latin flair of east-central Austin.

Anyways, I think Austin is doing relatively well with its growth, considering the tendencies of our other urban neighbors. I don't mind the high-rises downtown, although I'd like to have a word with some of their architects.

Your post is spot on with why I left Austin. Many of the people (not you, just to be clear) there are such hypocrites. They proclaim to be so eco-friendly and supportive of local business, yet they oppose the recent development downtown. The highrise condo developments reduce urban sprawl and help the environment, simple as that. Sure, the appearance and attitude of the city will change a little, but that's a small price to pay for the environmental and economical benefits.

[TexasHorseLady]

Originally Posted by hank0604

Your post is spot on with why I left Austin. Many of the people (not you, just to be clear) there are such hypocrites. They proclaim to be so eco-friendly and supportive of local business, yet they oppose the recent development downtown. The highrise condo developments reduce urban sprawl and help the environment, simple as that. Sure, the appearance and attitude of the city will change a little, but that's a small price to pay for the environmental and economical benefits.

First, it's not a little, it's a lot. Second, you obviously won't be here to experience the losses that this kind of development causes. Did you read where I mentioned that there are lovely condo developments (smaller, granted) in and around downtown that still feel like you're living in Austin, not NYC or Chicago or another city of a much different size and feel and environment?

There's more to being environmentally friendly, and more to an environment, than you seem to realize. Austin was being "green" when green wasn't cool, LONG before that, it was one of the things that gave it its flavor.

As for "economical benefits", people have been selling their birthright for a mess of pottage for a LONG time now, and it hasn't turned out well for them for the most part. You'd think we'd have learned by now, but some of us evidently haven't. Thus the mess that we find our economy in right now, as it happens.