Condo noise advice v. hardwood floors above me are insanely loud

[BentBow]

Originally Posted by Taft

I'm coming to this thread a bit late, I realize, but I'm in the opposite situation of many posters here. I recently bought a condo and have been faced with noise complaints almost from day one. We are a family of three with a young child and it seems like no matter what we do, we are still transmitting noise to our downstairs neighbors. We never wear shoes in the house. We don't let our kid play with toys that would result in significant banging or dragging. We have a ton of rugs with padding on the bottom. We've even attempted to change the way we walk (which seems ludicrous to me). All this and yet the neighbor in the back of the building still complains. We are trying to be nice about it, but the constant worrying that we are causing problems is starting to effect our quality of life.

Complicating matters is that the unit's flooring has not been altered since the building was built in 2001. Neither we, nor the previous owners, have made any material changes to the unit that would effect sound transmission. Any sound transmission problems are the result of the original construction. As a result, our HOA's vague rule regarding excess noise (or their concrete rules regarding alterations of units) isn't sufficient for them to take any action, whether against us or our downstairs neighbors. On top of this, while we are willing to explore solutions, the person downstairs is a renter and their landlord has expressed reluctance to help address the issue in a meaningful way.

And here is the real kicker: no one else in the building is complaining about noise and most other residents have kids much older and rowdier than ours. So we are left asking whether this is really a problem. Sound issues are notoriously subjective and no one else in the building has problems.

We want this problem solved once and for all. We don't want to be a problem for our neighbors and want piece of mind that normal activities (like walking across the floor) or occasional sources of noise (a toy dropped onto the hardwood or, I kid you not, a bar of soap dropped on the bathroom tile) aren't going to cause us headaches down the line. Earlier in the thread, austin_steve, among others, took a hard line against the owners on top. From my perspective, our quality of life is being disrupted as much as our neighbors.

With a pushy person downstairs, it quickly becomes a problem for both parties.

You have a neighbor that should not reside in an attached condo or apartment complex.

When I rented and it was an apartment, I always got an upper floor unit, because I didn't want the noise from the upstairs bothering me. Let's just say, the neighbor downstairs didn't like me!

[Taft]

Originally Posted by BentBow

You have a neighbor that should not reside in an attached condo or apartment complex.

When I rented and it was an apartment, I always got an upper floor unit, because I didn't want the noise from the upstairs bothering me. Let's just say, the neighbor downstairs didn't like me!

Yeah, I'm very worried that is the issue here.

[msandiego]

I understand all positions here as I live on the second of three floors. My downstairs neighbor says they can't tell we're home. We, on the other hand, are subjected to a constant barrage of loud footsteps, objects dropping and screeching dining chairs at all hours. It is very loud and NOBODY could sleep through it. Its like being inside a drum. Unlike some of the writers, we live in a 1974 wood structure, with virtually no soundproofing. This is structural noise and cannot be mitigated by simple insulation. A few observations:
1. The big problem with IIC ratings (there is literature on this topic), is that the ASTM method discounts sound below 100 Hz - the worst part of the noise. As a qualitative measure of this issue, I've measured well over 60 dB on a C weighted average that considers all frequencies; using A weighting, it barely tops 50.
2. Underlayments are judged by the IIC rating, which is worthless since it does not reflect actual performance where it counts - the low frequencies. Many floating floors move, further accentuating the "thud" effect. Many buildings - even those with thick, reinforced concrete floors - wisely require a minimum half inch of cork underlayment. This provides some cushion to footsteps that thin, high IIC rated underlayments do not. Most buildings in San Diego (post 1975) have CCRs prohibiting wood floors.
3. Walking without shoes does not necessarily reduce the sound. When my upstairs neighbor wears athletic shoes (and I can hear the type of contact his soles make...that's how terrible sound transmission is), it’s much more quiet than when he walks barefoot. In the latter case, his heels make a booming thud that can be heard in every room of my unit (when he is in the dining room, we hear it in both bedrooms, even the shower). It goes on for hours at a time and rattles windows.
4. Statements regarding the relative sensitivity of downstairs neighbors are often insulting and constitute an effort by many to paint the noise recipient as a whiner. Let me assure you upstairs neighbors, you are not suffering equally to your downstairs neighbor. Try wearing noise cancelling headphones every night - and still hearing thuds that would wake the dead. You should go downstairs and let your neighbor stomp around for a while, then judge.
5. I do not believe that a simple change in behavior is a huge imposition. I walk softly in my unit, despite having carpet with thick padding. I have no need to race from room to room. I also have had some upstairs neighbors that I can barely hear. It is a matter of consideration. Listen to the noise first hand before judging.
6. Some structures are wholly inappropriate for wood floors. As noted above, mine is wood and pre 1975 revisions to the UBC. As much as I want them, I would never consider wood floors in my unit. Several considerate neighbors have made the same decision.
7. In California, disclosure is mandatory when selling a unit. It is unconscionable that an upstairs owner can degrade the value of their downstairs neighbors unit - regardless of CCRs. If you want a wood floor, do your due diligence and take responsibility for repercussions. Anything else represents a callous disregard for the rights of others.

[BentBow]

Originally Posted by msandiego

I understand all positions here as I live on the second of three floors. My downstairs neighbor says they can't tell we're home. We, on the other hand, are subjected to a constant barrage of loud footsteps, objects dropping and screeching dining chairs at all hours. It is very loud and NOBODY could sleep through it. Its like being inside a drum. Unlike some of the writers, we live in a 1974 wood structure, with virtually no soundproofing. This is structural noise and cannot be mitigated by simple insulation. A few observations:
1. The big problem with IIC ratings (there is literature on this topic), is that the ASTM method discounts sound below 100 Hz - the worst part of the noise. As a qualitative measure of this issue, I've measured well over 60 dB on a C weighted average that considers all frequencies; using A weighting, it barely tops 50.
2. Underlayments are judged by the IIC rating, which is worthless since it does not reflect actual performance where it counts - the low frequencies. Many floating floors move, further accentuating the "thud" effect. Many buildings - even those with thick, reinforced concrete floors - wisely require a minimum half inch of cork underlayment. This provides some cushion to footsteps that thin, high IIC rated underlayments do not. Most buildings in San Diego (post 1975) have CCRs prohibiting wood floors.
3. Walking without shoes does not necessarily reduce the sound. When my upstairs neighbor wears athletic shoes (and I can hear the type of contact his soles make...that's how terrible sound transmission is), it’s much more quiet than when he walks barefoot. In the latter case, his heels make a booming thud that can be heard in every room of my unit (when he is in the dining room, we hear it in both bedrooms, even the shower). It goes on for hours at a time and rattles windows.
4. Statements regarding the relative sensitivity of downstairs neighbors are often insulting and constitute an effort by many to paint the noise recipient as a whiner. Let me assure you upstairs neighbors, you are not suffering equally to your downstairs neighbor. Try wearing noise cancelling headphones every night - and still hearing thuds that would wake the dead. You should go downstairs and let your neighbor stomp around for a while, then judge.
5. I do not believe that a simple change in behavior is a huge imposition. I walk softly in my unit, despite having carpet with thick padding. I have no need to race from room to room. I also have had some upstairs neighbors that I can barely hear. It is a matter of consideration. Listen to the noise first hand before judging.
6. Some structures are wholly inappropriate for wood floors. As noted above, mine is wood and pre 1975 revisions to the UBC. As much as I want them, I would never consider wood floors in my unit. Several considerate neighbors have made the same decision.
7. In California, disclosure is mandatory when selling a unit. It is unconscionable that an upstairs owner can degrade the value of their downstairs neighbors unit - regardless of CCRs. If you want a wood floor, do your due diligence and take responsibility for repercussions. Anything else represents a callous disregard for the rights of others.

There is a big difference in how people walk. My wife. pounds around, like her feet are sledge hammers.
I on the otherhand, am like Kui Chain Kane(grasshopper) walking on rice paper.


I found this out last weekend, renting a condo at the beach.