Hating on the Highrises (Austin, Howe: rent, lawyer, to buy)

[latikeriii]

It's too late, no stopping the momentum now, it may be slowed by the economy but the high rises will continue to be built..If the condo markets become overbuilt, they will be converted into rentals and should still fill up. Austin has the population and people with money to live downtown. The problem is that downtown needs more retail, museums, and reasons to draw people and families into the area during the day, not just workers, bar/restaurant patrons, and the festivals. You will curse me but Austin needs a mix of national brands like Express, Gap, etc, along with local stores in the retail areas on these high rises and even on Congress to draw more shoppers. Downtown needs to draw more people and have a vibrant DAYTIME crowd.
BTW, 6th street is ugly during the daytime..

[llkltk]

I don't think you'll see stores like Express or the Gap downtown. Probably not ever going to happen. Austin is very selective on what they allow downtown. For instance, West Elm is opening next to Whole Foods. They tend to pick more unique retail such as Anthropologie, Patagonia, etc.

[TexasHorseLady]

6th Street has never been Austin - it's for tourists and college students, primarily. As that, there's precious little reason for it not to be ugly during the daytime.

And, yes, I agree there needs to be shopping to draw folks from other parts of the city downtown, but simply having the same national brand stores that they can get to (and park at) MUCH more easily in the malls and suburbs doesn't seem to me to be the way to do it.

I don't even go to the downtown Whole Foods much at all anymore due to the hassle of parking, and I've been going to Whole Foods since before it was a small store down the street at Lamar and 12th (before its name was Whole Foods), shopped at primarily by hippies. Why on earth would I go to a Gap when I can easily go to one in a mall or shopping center?

There needs to be something to draw people, but it needs to be something they can't get more easily elsewhere.

[Jennibc]

Originally Posted by latikeriii

It's too late, no stopping the momentum now, it may be slowed by the economy but the high rises will continue to be built..If the condo markets become overbuilt, they will be converted into rentals and should still fill up. Austin has the population and people with money to live downtown. The problem is that downtown needs more retail, museums, and reasons to draw people and families into the area during the day, not just workers, bar/restaurant patrons, and the festivals. You will curse me but Austin needs a mix of national brands like Express, Gap, etc, along with local stores in the retail areas on these high rises and even on Congress to draw more shoppers. Downtown needs to draw more people and have a vibrant DAYTIME crowd.
BTW, 6th street is ugly during the daytime..

Why do you think stores like Gap or Express would draw shoppers downtown? If I need to go someplace like that I can go to Barton Creek Mall and shop for free. I would be more likely to go downtown if it offered something unique (and Anthropology isn't unique - it's seemingly makes an appearance at upscale malls everywhere).

[latikeriii]

Originally Posted by TexasHorseLady

6th Street has never been Austin - it's for tourists and college students, primarily. As that, there's precious little reason for it not to be ugly during the daytime.

And, yes, I agree there needs to be shopping to draw folks from other parts of the city downtown, but simply having the same national brand stores that they can get to (and park at) MUCH more easily in the malls and suburbs doesn't seem to me to be the way to do it.

I don't even go to the downtown Whole Foods much at all anymore due to the hassle of parking, and I've been going to Whole Foods since before it was a small store down the street at Lamar and 12th (before its name was Whole Foods), shopped at primarily by hippies. Why on earth would I go to a Gap when I can easily go to one in a mall or shopping center?

There needs to be something to draw people, but it needs to be something they can't get more easily elsewhere.

So, what is that something that can't get anywhere easily? Maybe an H&M store that are usually in downtown areas in Chicago/LA/NYC? Trust me, I wouldn't shop at those stores but people who live in those condos would for the most part. Would they want to just walk to the stores or drive all the way to Barton Creek Mall. Also, people who generally don't live downtown do come for brunch downtown and afterwards, some like to walk around downtown, if an Express, Gap, or Bebe is there and they shop there, they would likely stop and at least take a look.

[TexasHorseLady]

But those stores are not a draw for people to come downtown, which was your original premise as to why they need to be there. Again, that's just turning downtown Austin into Anywhere, USA. I'm not yelling at you, or cursing you, just saying that your premise is wrong if you think that those kinds of stores will draw shoppers downtown.

[verybadgnome]

Actually with 25,000 people living downtown (in a few years time at least) and 90,000 working there (currently) they don't have to draw much more than that. As far as a comparison is concerned........

Barton Creek Mall will have a food court with mostly low-priced chain restaurants that serve their meals on a plastic trays while downtown will have mostly non-chain mid to high end restaurants, bars, coffee houses, outdoor cafes, etc.

Barton Creek Mall will have a sterile indoor environment while downtown you will be outdoors with a mix of features including neighboring parks, e.g. Peace Park, Hike and Bike Trail, gov't buildings, offices, condos, hotels, musuems, etc.

Barton Creek Mall will have the same stores you see at every other mall in America while downtown will have greater diversity and better quality merchandise. (Can you buy a Ducatti at Barton Creek Mall?)

Barton Creek Mall is really only accessible by car while a downtowner can walk to 2nd street stores/restaurants.

So no Barton Creek Mall is not really at all comparable to DT shopping/dining.

[TexasHorseLady]

It's not comparable, but if you fill it with the same stores that are in the malls, it will BECOME comparable. Why aim at that lowest common denominator? (And if you fill up the storefronts with national chains, or even have them predominantly, trust me, you'll get the food court type restaurants - in fact, I was in one downtown just a few weeks ago that was barely a step higher than McDonald's but it appeared it be quite popular among those working/living downtown.) Why not come up with something uniquely Austin, instead, that will draw people downtown, that is more local, or at least statewide, not nationwide, that will appeal to shoppers that they can't get anywhere else?

[Jennibc]

Originally Posted by verybadgnome

So no Barton Creek Mall is not really at all comparable to DT shopping/dining.

Right, as long as you keep Gap or Express out of DT. But again, if I just need to pick something up at the Gap it makes more sense to go park somewhere free and run and get it. I would not ever go downtown to go someplace like the Gap. I typically go down there for town lake.

BTW, my point was not that Barton Creek is a superior shopping experience, I was only pointing out that putting a Gap or Express downtown and expecting them draw people there doesn't seem like such a good idea when you factor in parking costs and other traffic considerations. I am willing to pay for parking if it is to do something fun/interesting, but shopping at the Gap doesn't do it for me.

[latikeriii]

Originally Posted by verybadgnome

Actually with 25,000 people living downtown (in a few years time at least) and 90,000 working there (currently) they don't have to draw much more than that. As far as a comparison is concerned........

Barton Creek Mall will have a food court with mostly low-priced chain restaurants that serve their meals on a plastic trays while downtown will have mostly non-chain mid to high end restaurants, bars, coffee houses, outdoor cafes, etc.

Barton Creek Mall will have a sterile indoor environment while downtown you will be outdoors with a mix of features including neighboring parks, e.g. Peace Park, Hike and Bike Trail, gov't buildings, offices, condos, hotels, musuems, etc.

Barton Creek Mall will have the same stores you see at every other mall in America while downtown will have greater diversity and better quality merchandise. (Can you buy a Ducatti at Barton Creek Mall?)

Barton Creek Mall is really only accessible by car while a downtowner can walk to 2nd street stores/restaurants.

So no Barton Creek Mall is not really at all comparable to DT shopping/dining.

I agree, if I had a choice to shop at a store downtown or Barton Creek, I would shop downtown. I agree that indoor malls are blands but they are air conditioned too so if people don't mind the hot Texas summers then downtown would be a good alternative. Its not like you'll be outside for an extended period of time though and people shop at the Domain. Also, the chamber of commerce should really work hard to draw chain stores downtown that are not already in Austin. Offer them incentive to come downtown and not to Barton Creek or the Domain. There are tons of stores that are not in Austin that could draw shoppers downtown. Even another huge Apple store would be a draw. Retail will be the engine to drive pedestrian growth. Maybe a movie theater downtown would work too. Eventually with a lot of investment, museums and live theater could come but that would take a few years. Restaurants and Condos are opening at break-neck speed even in a slow economy so there is obviously a market for people who want to be downtown and spend money downtown. Even though I love bars, downtown is oversaturated with them. Just my opinion.