Hating on the Highrises (Austin, San Diego: low income, apartment complexes, condos)

[verybadgnome]

Since the subject of Austin's changing skyline seems to be an ever increasing topic of conversation over the last few years I've noticed a lot of opinions on the topic coming out of the woodwork. For the most part they have either been indifferent or negative with only a smattering of positive words with the most recent and very permanent change to our fair city and I am starting to wonder just why that is. A lot of it seems to be centered around the motives of these new residents.......

- older Austinites get overly nostalgic and pine for the days when this was a more intimate city when they were young; that they people who buy into these residences have no respect to what was there before

- jealousy/incredulity of perceived elitism: "why would anyone spend that king of money for 800 sq. ft.?" That they are hipsters, trust fund babies, urbanist, out-of-staters, etc.

- that they are part of a process gentrifying Austin

- that the new residents are changing the local culture; that downtown living in not a part of "Texas culture"

- that they are not providing "low income" housing. (To this I would respond that their is public housing in 78704 and that 78741 is still pretty cheap in the free market.)

.......While others hate the look of the tall buildings, that they are ruining their views of the capitol, UT, etc.


Me I am glad they are here because:

- they add enormously to the tax base while at the same time costing little to serve since the streets, sidewalks, utilities, fire stations, etc. are already in place. Add to that that most of the folks do not have children yet are putting ~50% of their enormous property tax bills to AISD and this is a double win.

- adding high density to the mix of the standard 3 story apartment complexes/single family homes that is prevalent here give folks more choices for their varying lifestyles, i.e. not everyone wants to mow a lawn every weekend or be stuck in the chain store suburbs.

- they ensure that downtown Austin is not a ghost town on the weekends outside the 4th/6th street areas

- that they can reduce demand on our roads by either (1) having workers inside the No. 1 employment center in the region or (2) facilitate reverse commutes, e.g. going from downtown to the burbs during AM rush hour when those outbound lanes have little traffic (3) make commutes shorter so that mass transit, biking, and walking are more feasible

- that we simply need to find better ways of allocating limited space close to jobs and better preserve natural areas, aquifers, farmlands, ranch lands, etc.

- they attract investment from outside the region or even country which adds $$$ to our local economy

I have a hard time getting anything out of people other than they don't like the way the look or that they themselves would not want to live there to which I would reply that the former is subjective and the latter is basically irrelevant if the demand meets the supply (Yes I do have a rebuttal to the Brazos Place argument). So I ask what is the real reason for all this animosity?

[capcat]

The subject of Austin's changing skyline has been a topic of conversation for at least the past 3 decades. Count me as one who is indifferent for that reason. I believe that, historically, the argument has been to preserve the view of the Capitol building. I'd be hard-pressed to think that Austinites harbor wide-spread animosity toward people who choose to live there.

I wouldn't want the Capitol building swallowed by high-rise buildings (and I doubt it will be), but I like the idea of people living in downtown Austin. I hate to sound like an overly-nostalgic older Austinite, but isn't that the way it used to be? Living and shopping downtown is a part any urban area's history or culture, including Texas cities and towns.

[oldtoiletsmkgdflrpots]

you said: having workers inside the No. 1 employment center in the region



What is the #1 employment center in the region?

[Moonlady]

Originally Posted by oldtoiletsmkgdflrpots

you said: having workers inside the No. 1 employment center in the region



What is the #1 employment center in the region?

Without knowing the facts, I'm going to guess it's The State of Texas. Lots of state jobs, including UT, and most are in or near downtown.

[TexasHorseLady]

I'd say that the Capitol is already swallowed by high-rise buildings from the south. Given that, don't ever say "it can't happen here", because those high rises could just as easily continue their steady march to the east, west, and south of it, given sufficient pull.

As for adding to the tax base, that counts only if they're successful, which has been questionable of late.

As for changing things, yes, they are being built with NO regard for where they are, designed to attract people who are, for the most part, from elsewhere and apparently have little respect for Austin and Texas culture but who think we should look and be just like somewhere else. Attracting investment from outside the region in this way smacks way too much of selling our birthright for a mess of pottage.

Now this:

- that we simply need to find better ways of allocating limited space close to jobs and better preserve natural areas, aquifers, farmlands, ranch lands, etc.

I can agree with, but we have to be very careful that the "solution" we come up with doesn't turn out to be worse than the problem. The key is better ways, and I don't see these condos springing up like mushrooms as being better.

[Trainwreck20]

I have never really heard any 'hate' for the high-rises....some nostalgia, yes, but hate? Not really. In fact, most people I know are more 'ooohhh, look at all the big buildings', and then go back to whatever they were doing.

The only thing that irks me is whatever that property is that wants the city to turn around and waive/reduce the lake setbacks becuase the property cannot be made profitable or something on the reduced footprint. Well, doh! Didn't you look at that when you bought it? Ah, yeah, but I am guessing you figured you would just change the rules to suit, huh?

[verybadgnome]

Originally Posted by oldtoiletsmkgdflrpots

you said: having workers inside the No. 1 employment center in the region



What is the #1 employment center in the region?

The Austin CBD is the #1 employment center in the region with about 90,000 jobs. From the maps I can gather this would not include UT (about 10,000 full time and about the same PT at the university itself) AFAIK. The CBD is really a small area (1.59 square miles) according to the maps:

http://www.ci.austin.tx.us/downtown/...cbdtranspo.jpg

Austin CBD, University & Urban Area Commuting Profile: 2000

[ATX Homeboy]

I HATE those monstrosities and eyesores!!! DT looks nothing like it used to and yes I miss the old skyline or what I knew growing up. The archtecture against the burnt orange and purple backdrop is what most people recognized about Austin. For those of you that watch ACL, then you know what I mean. Being able to see the Capitol, UT Tower, or Hill Country and River IS the reason for living DT or visiting. I don't want to live DT and see another condo across from me. Oh yeah, that Frost Bank is retched. The architecture looks like a bad joke stolen from a Superman movie.

The OP is correct, however, I'm sure that many of the people who live in those places contribute to the tax base. But, fact is we all do. Yes, those high rise condos will attract money to the local economy. I also agree that it is time that Texas and its cities begin growing upward instead of outward to protect our water and environment. I just don't like the way they look because they cloud my memory. I don't think that people who live DT will commute away from DT to the burbs. That arguement doesn't hold water. Those people who live DT are more likely to work DT ie: Lawyers, Doctors, Executives, Professionals, etc. So, they are also more likely to live inside a bubble or be isolated in their own little world. So, there you have it. Yes, I contradict myself. I hate them because they are ugly but I feel that upward growth is far better than outward sprawl. Americans are guilty of duality, I'm no differ'nt.

[Alatex]

I don't think that people who live DT will commute away from DT to the burbs. That arguement doesn't hold water.

Oddly enough, I do know that one of my brother's colleagues at Texas State lives in a 26th-floor condo in downtown Austin.

[jobert]

Yes, the Frost Bank building is bad - it was completed in 2003 but is already dated. This building is an office tower though, and not a condo, so the point is moot whether it needs to be there or not. The Ashton is pretty generic (the brick building with the curved top) situated next to the Austonian, which is downright sexy IMO. The only beef I would have is that the buildings are being thrown up too fast and not thought out. The condos down the shore near the Hispanic cultural center still look like they are under construction, but they're not - it's the stucco - it looks like waterproof sheathing, but that's the building's finish! The use of stucco is the evidence of "people making someplace like where they came from" because this isn't Miami or San Diego, and stucco has no business here, especially on a hi-rise.