72 year old woman tasered in Austin. Justified?? (Burnet, Early: disposal, guidelines)

[love roses]

Small departments tend to be understaffed. He probably could have been sitting there for hours on end or even all night pushing that woman back from the road over and over again before backup arrived. Boy, I'd really hate to see what a keystone cop police force we'd have if they were driven by a civilian dispatch board. But, I'm sure they will adopt Austins policy of no tasering of people over 65 which is reasonable.

[statefan]

Originally Posted by mmac12

Why does he have to use violance at all? If he waited for supervision and other offiers to arrive if he still wanted to place her under arrest their presence alone would have been the factor to hancuff her and take her away without her getting hurt.. He used deadly force to effect this arrest and without any justification she was not armed!!

She had already said 2 times she was going to go back to the car. Going back to the car for what? He has to assume there is risk, she has already ignored his warnings and showed no sign of listening to any orders. How is he supposed to keep her in control until back up arrives? Threaten to tase her? Obviously that didn't work either!

If he had tased her after one or two warnings, I might have a little sympathy for the old bag, but I just can't see it. I still see no other options for the officer and we can hypothesize till the cows come home. He chose the best option for his and her safety.

[stan4]

I'm sorry, but barring the most extreme circumstances, I say you get what you deserve if you don't listen to the officer.

[mlassoff]

Originally Posted by stan4

I'm sorry, but barring the most extreme circumstances, I say you get what you deserve if you don't listen to the officer.

Yes there is nothing quite like a good beatin' to get the obedience of the citizenry.

You people are making me want to join the ACLU.

[Fomalhaut]

Originally Posted by mmac12

Why does he have to use violance at all? If he waited for supervision and other offiers to arrive if he still wanted to place her under arrest their presence alone would have been the factor to hancuff her and take her away without her getting hurt.. He used deadly force to effect this arrest and without any justification she was not armed!!

Taser study finds serious injuries rare after Taser useAn emergency medicine researcher at Wake Forest University Baptist Medical Center has just published the first large, independent study of injuries from conducted electrical weapon (CEW) or Taser use, finding that serious injuries occurred in fewer than 1 percent of 1,201 Taser uses by law enforcement officers.

The study, led by William P. Bozeman, M.D., of Wake Forest University School of Medicine, is now available online in the Annals of Emergency Medicine ("Safety and Injury Profile of Conducted Electrical Weapons Used By Law Enforcement Officers Against Criminal Suspects") and is scheduled to appear in a future print issue of the journal.
The findings represent a three-year review of 1,201 CEW uses at six law enforcement agencies across the United States . The study was funded by the National Institute of Justice.
"These weapons appear to be very safe, especially when compared to other options police have for subduing violent or combative suspects," Bozeman said. "That is not to say that injuries and deaths are impossible. Police and medical personnel need to be aware of the potential for serious injury and look for evidence that a person subdued by a Taser has been hurt."
The study reports that 99.75 percent of criminal suspects shocked by a CEW received no injuries or mild injuries only, such as scrapes and bruises. Of the 1,201 criminal suspects, 492 suffered mild injuries, mostly (83 percent) superficial puncture wounds from the Taser probes. Of the three subjects who sustained significant injuries, two suffered from head injuries related to falls; the third developed rhabdomyolysis, or a rapid breakdown of muscle tissue. Ninety-four percent of the suspects were male, and alcohol or intoxication was documented in almost half of the cases (49.5 percent).
A physician at each participating agency reviewed police and medical records after each CEW use. Injuries were identified and classified as mild, moderate or severe.
More than two-thirds of United States law enforcement agencies currently use CEWs. They are credited with decreasing police officer and suspect injuries and deaths due to police use of force. However, the devices have been surrounded with controversy.
"While injuries from Taser use are uncommon, they are not unheard of," Bozeman said. "Subjects exposed to a CEW discharge should be assessed for injuries, and appropriate medical evaluation should be provided when non-trivial injuries are apparent or suspected. Existing medical and/or psychiatric conditions in the suspect may also cause or contribute to the behavior that leads police to use a Taser or other physical force. These underlying conditions may require medical assessment and treatment, independent of Taser exposure."
Co-authors were J. Tripp Winslow, M.D., M.P.H., of Wake Forest University , William E. Hauda, M.D., of Inova Fairfax Hospital ( Va. ), Joseph J. Heck, D.O., of University Medical Center ( Nev. ), Derrel Graham, M.D., and Brian Martin, M.D., M.S., of Louisiana State University-Shreveport ( La. ).
http://www.wfubmc.edu/

[austin-steve]

Originally Posted by mlassoff

Again I ask, was the constable in danger? Do you really want to give police so much discretion that they can use their weapon simply because someone is mouthing off?

Absolutely I do. Mouthing off escalates to other things. Better to shut it down and take control. And you keep ignoring the fact that his actions were after multiple warnings stating "you are going to be tased" and "you are going to be arrested" to which the stupid old lady retorted with comments such as "I dare you" and "go ahead".

I ask you, exactly how long should the officer stand there accepting verbal abuse, disobedience, taunts and dares, and attempts to physically get around the officer. Good grief.

[austin-steve]

Originally Posted by mmac12

Why does he have to use violance at all? If he waited for supervision and other offiers to arrive if he still wanted to place her under arrest their presence alone would have been the factor to hancuff her and take her away without her getting hurt.. He used deadly force to effect this arrest and without any justification she was not armed!!

Your trying to justify your argument with speculation that the lady would have behaved if surrounded by multiple officers. You have no evidence to support that. And what difference would it make if she continues mouthing off and won't cooperate. At some point they have to physically place her into custody.

Steve

[mlassoff]

Originally Posted by austin-steve

I ask you, exactly how long should the officer stand there accepting verbal abuse, disobedience, taunts and dares, and attempts to physically get around the officer. Good grief.

Until enough backup arrives to safely subdue the suspect without using a weapon. Or until there is DANGER to that officer or others. Or until the person calms down.

I realize that the woman was acting like an insane person, however there are enough cases of police abusing their authority and power in the country. Every cop should face serious scrutiny when the use a weapon. If it turns out there was DANGER.. no problem.

The standard shouldn't be abuse, or mouthing off.

[statefan]

Originally Posted by mlassoff

Until enough backup arrives to safely subdue the suspect without using a weapon. Or until there is DANGER to that officer or others. Or until the person calms down.

I realize that the woman was acting like an insane person, however there are enough cases of police abusing their authority and power in the country. Every cop should face serious scrutiny when the use a weapon. If it turns out there was DANGER.. no problem.

The standard shouldn't be abuse, or mouthing of.

There are also enough cases of innocent police officers shot and killed during a routine traffic stop, or hit and ran over during a routine traffic stop. The officer has to assume there is danger. When a suspect refuses to cooperate and follow simple instructions (regardless of age, sex, religious orientation, etc.) the officer had every right to assume they are a danger to him and anyone else.

[love roses]

Originally Posted by mlassoff

Yes there is nothing quite like a good beatin' to get the obedience of the citizenry.

You people are making me want to join the ACLU.

noone said that.