72 year old woman tasered in Austin. Justified?? (Howe: credit card, safe)

[mimimomx3]

Originally Posted by love roses

I've heard that one of the cops present did have a camera on, but it hasn't been released. The media isn't being much help with this either, calling her Grandma" instead of any other adjective, like stubborn old lady.

Well, she is a grandma. "Stubborn" is an opinion.

[Nor Cal Wahine]

Originally Posted by CptnRn

Actually he was 18 years old, and a known criminal with a record.

A substantial one at that. I didn't know just how many arrests he'd had (11) until I just looked it up.

Arrests for SANDERS, NATHANIEL

2008-07-29 2008-2112185 CUSTODY ARREST TRAFFIC WARR 78745

2008-08-21 2008-2340290 WARR ARREST NON TRAFFIC 78723 207857

2008-08-21 2008-2340290 FAILURE TO IDENTIFY 78723 207856

2008-08-21 2008-2340290 CUSTODY ARREST TRAFFIC WARR 78723

2008-10-27 2008-3011288 WARR ARREST NON TRAFFIC 78701 197603

2008-10-27 2008-3011288 VOCO VIOL/OTHER 78701 214874

2008-12-05 2008-3402437 UCW 78705 181181

2009-01-02 2009-20169 FIREARMS 78701 251965

2009-04-07 2009-972001 REQUEST TO APPREHEND 78723 251966

2009-04-07 2009-972001 WARR ARREST NON TRAFFIC 78723 251964

2009-04-07 2009-972001 PROBATION VIOL 78723

It seems abundantly clear to me that little Nathaniel was far from the nice boy we're hearing him described as by family and friends. He was a thug, plain & simple. He lived & died by a code of low moral principle that most of us will (hopefully) never understand.

Sassy Granny on the other hand apparently does not have any kind of record of her own. I think her tazing was a wobbler in terms of justification ... I think she was instigative and combative, which in itself isn't illegal, but I understand the constable being concerned for safety. I wonder if he could have diffused the situation more peacefully, though. Signing a ticket is NOT an admission of guilt, and is required in order to stave off the "If I don't sign the ticket it didn't really happen" ploy that some people WILL attempt. Since he had the incident on camera though he probably could have just let her drive off and filed a report and pulled the video.

[CptnRn]

Originally Posted by mimimomx3

I wasn't talking about Nathaniel Sanders. I was commenting on the previous post, that said : Originally Posted by statefan
I don't care how old you are. If it were a 16 year old kid, this wouldn't even be an issue!


But for the record, it has not yet been proven that Nathaniel Sanders had a gun, or that the people in that car were doing anything illegal. It's still legal to sleep in your car. We don't really know what happened, actually, because the officer "forgot" to turn on his camera. Ooops!

Oh, so this is some hypothetical 16 year old black kid that you are talking about? Actually the Nathaniel Sanders case shows that you are wrong, there has been a huge outcry and concern over his killing.

And rightly so, the use of deadly, violent and excessive force must be regulated because it is so easily abused. Which is why there is so much concern over this case. A police officer could have legitimate concerns about his safety with a strong young 16 year old kid, but excessive force is hard to justify when used on a 4'-11", 72 year old women.

[love roses]

Well, knowing Austin, there will be a new rule to just let the elderly do as they like now. I just don't know how anyone would want to be a cop these days. Most citizens would rather see the cop dead than a rough criminal.

[CptnRn]

Originally Posted by statefan

You are kidding right? I any book, this is resisting arrest! I don't care how old you are. If it were a 16 year old kid, this wouldn't even be an issue!

The cop did nothing wrong. She cursed him, pushed him and pulled away from him. He was trying to get her to sign the ticket! He tried to hand cuff her, she jerked away saying she was getting back in her car! He had every right to do what was needed to control this lady.

Where are you seeing this? That is not apparent in any video I have seen so far. I just watched it again. I could not hear any cursing and every instance of physical contact was initiated by the cop, the worst she ever did was pull away from him and try to walk around him without touching him.

[mimimomx3]

Originally Posted by Nor Cal Wahine

A substantial one at that. I didn't know just how many arrests he'd had (11) until I just looked it up.

Arrests for SANDERS, NATHANIEL

2008-07-29 2008-2112185 CUSTODY ARREST TRAFFIC WARR 78745

2008-08-21 2008-2340290 WARR ARREST NON TRAFFIC 78723 207857

2008-08-21 2008-2340290 FAILURE TO IDENTIFY 78723 207856

2008-08-21 2008-2340290 CUSTODY ARREST TRAFFIC WARR 78723

2008-10-27 2008-3011288 WARR ARREST NON TRAFFIC 78701 197603

2008-10-27 2008-3011288 VOCO VIOL/OTHER 78701 214874

2008-12-05 2008-3402437 UCW 78705 181181

2009-01-02 2009-20169 FIREARMS 78701 251965

2009-04-07 2009-972001 REQUEST TO APPREHEND 78723 251966

2009-04-07 2009-972001 WARR ARREST NON TRAFFIC 78723 251964

2009-04-07 2009-972001 PROBATION VIOL 78723

It seems abundantly clear to me that little Nathaniel was far from the nice boy we're hearing him described as by family and friends. He was a thug, plain & simple. He lived & died by a code of low moral principle that most of us will (hopefully) never understand.

Sassy Granny on the other hand apparently does not have any kind of record of her own. I think her tazing was a wobbler in terms of justification ... I think she was instigative and combative, which in itself isn't illegal, but I understand the constable being concerned for safety. I wonder if he could have diffused the situation more peacefully, though. Signing a ticket is NOT an admission of guilt, and is required in order to stave off the "If I don't sign the ticket it didn't really happen" ploy that some people WILL attempt. Since he had the incident on camera though he probably could have just let her drive off and filed a report and pulled the video.

I'm not arguing that he had a record. He did, although I might argue that his 'thug life' record consists of mostly traffic warrants. I'm saying that we don't know if AT THAT MOMENT in a parking lot he was a threat to the officer. That's all. If I see the video that shows the guy pulling a gun on the officer, then his kiddling was justified.

As for grandma, I can not respect an officer who shows such little judgement. A simple discussion probably would have calmed her down to the point that she would have accepted her ticket. To taze her seems excessive, and seems to me just serves to desensitize us to police (and government, by implication) violence.

[doctorjef]

Originally Posted by CptnRn

Check out the footage here,

Grandmother Tasered at Traffic Stop

it was a Travis County Constable Deputy. I guess that is like a street cop for the suburbs outside of the City limits. I can't imagine that big burly constable being intimidated by this frail lady.

The constable precinct deputies are, as you might imagine, less well trained than APD officers and probably less well trained than Travis Co Sheriff's Deputies. How do I know this? I used to do state-mandated peace officer pre-employment psychological screenings for a lot of the smaller central Texas law enforcement agenices as well as pre-admission screenings for the CAPCO peace officer training academy. Frankly, this is a second or third rate entryway into law enforcement. I'm not surprised that it was a constable's deputy and happy that it wasn't an APD officer.

[txstate]

If she was like that and i was the officer I would tase her slighty less voltage but she would have got the idea.

[TexasHorseLady]

Originally Posted by CptnRn

Where are you seeing this? That is not apparent in any video I have seen so far. I just watched it again. I could not hear any cursing and every instance of physical contact was initiated by the cop, the worst she ever did was pull away from him and try to walk around him without touching him.

Every time I've seen the video, there was profanity bleeped out. A couple of times she tried to walk around him (out into the road with traffic driving by) saying she was getting back in her vehicle.

I'm not 72, but I'm close enough to say that that woman should be ashamed of herself, and seeing her on the news being interviewed and saying that she was NOT argumentative and uncooperative after watching her being exactly that, with profanity, simply reinforces that viewpoint.

In point of fact, with some people on here, it wouldn't matter WHAT the cop did, they would be castigating him, because that's what they do. Taking responsibility for the consequences of one's own actions (such as speeding in a construction zone or, gee whiz, speeding, period) seems to be incomprehensible to some.

The old woman in question, based on the tape that was on both news stations that I've seen it on (which seems to start earlier than the one described above, because it starts with the woman in her vehicle and proceeds to her getting out of the vehicle and goes on through the tazing), was not going to cooperate no matter what and was, indeed, argumentative and uncooperative. The officer COULD have used physical force other than tasing to get her to cooperative, but if she'd been injured as a result of his doing that other than tasing, just what do you think you'd be saying about his choice, then, those of you who object so strenously to that woman being held accountable just as anyone not 72 would be.

It was very clear that she was using her age as a weapon, and I say shame on her for that, as well. It speaks volumes that the moment the tape came out, she went underground. Guess she didn't realize that there was evidence of her behavior and that she WOULD be held responsible for the consequences of her actions. Oh, darn.

[CptnRn]

Originally Posted by mimimomx3

Well, she is a grandma. "Stubborn" is an opinion.

Well, she is a grandma. "Stubborn" is a given.