72 year old woman tasered in Austin. Justified?? (Howe: versus, authority)

[mmac12]

I think everyone is loosing sight of the fact that this was no gang-banger, no big intimidating guy but someone's mother and grandmother!!! This peace officers are supposed to be trained in how to defuse a situation ... not how to escalate it!!! He is a disgrace to his uniform and his boss is an even bigger disgrace!! If he ever encountered a real criminal he would probably panic and shoot him first!

[TexasHorseLady]

I'm not losing sight of that fact. However, the fact that she's someone's mother and grandmother does not exempt her from being responsible for the consequences of her actions, nor does it give her a pass to behave badly (or to drive 60 in a 45 construction zone, endangering her fellow motorists and construction workers, or to resist arrest or use profanity to a cop).

In fact, to assume that that is an excuse for her actions is an insult to mothers and grandmothers everywhere who accept that with being that comes responsibility.

[CptnRn]

Originally Posted by mmac12

I think everyone is loosing sight of the fact that this was no gang-banger, no big intimidating guy but someone's mother and grandmother!!! This peace officers are supposed to be trained in how to defuse a situation ... not how to escalate it!!! He is a disgrace to his uniform and his boss is an even bigger disgrace!! If he ever encountered a real criminal he would probably panic and shoot him first!

After he peed his pants!

[Nor Cal Wahine]

Originally Posted by mimimomx3

I'm not arguing that he had a record. He did, although I might argue that his 'thug life' record consists of mostly traffic warrants.

LOL ... mostly traffic warrants, along with weapon and robbery charges. Oh that rascally young Nathaniel!

[doctorjef]

Originally Posted by TexasHorseLady

I'm not losing sight of that fact. However, the fact that she's someone's mother and grandmother does not exempt her from being responsible for the consequences of her actions, nor does it give her a pass to behave badly (or to drive 60 in a 45 construction zone, endangering her fellow motorists and construction workers, or to resist arrest or use profanity to a cop).

In fact, to assume that that is an excuse for her actions is an insult to mothers and grandmothers everywhere who accept that with being that comes responsibility.

The issue is really down to excessive use of force in the form of the taser specifically. This was clearly an easy thing for the cop to do, rather than using either verbal or physical management skills to resolve the situation. We should expect that a properly trained police constable would be capable of physically restraining and handcuffing a small, 72 year old woman in a safe manner. Again, experience with psychiatric patients far more aggressive than this lady belies any idea that she required tasering in order to subdue.

[CptnRn]

Originally Posted by Nor Cal Wahine

LOL ... mostly traffic warrants, along with weapon and robbery charges. Oh that rascally young Nathaniel!

Don't forget the narcotic charges and the fact that Mr. Sanders had been to the Travis County Jail 9 times since last Feb.

According to court records, Sanders was serving a form of probation — related to a 2008 arrest for possession of 35 grams of crack cocaine when he was arrested last week in connection with a robbery at a downtown ATM, the Austin American-Statesman reported. The victim accused Sanders of hitting him and taking cash and his wallet, according to the arrest warrant. Officers found Sanders several blocks away based on a description from the victim, picking a credit card out of a wallet before tossing it into a trash can, the affidavit said.

Just good kids out having a little fun.

[Nor Cal Wahine]

Originally Posted by CptnRn

Just good kids out having a little fun.

Don't forget that the day Sanders was arrested for robbing the man using the ATM machine that one of his thug buddies robbed a DISABLED man at the very same machine just an hour or two before. That victim reported that a second man was present, but he was unable to identify him.

I'd be willing to bet money that 1) Sanders was the second man and 2) that he had a gun on his person the day that he was shot.

[atxcio]

Originally Posted by doctorjef

We should expect that a properly trained police constable would be capable of physically restraining and handcuffing a small, 72 year old woman in a safe manner. Again, experience with psychiatric patients far more aggressive than this lady belies any idea that she required tasering in order to subdue.

Very true. My wife works in the ER, and she's constantly dealing with people just as irate and combative... young, very old, man, woman, big, small... when you are dealing with the public at large as a "first responder", you'll encounter these types. Many times they may be mentally ill, or in an inebriated state... but still, you are expected to be trained to handle this and not take it personally or escalate the situation.

I'm of the mind that if the cop gets fired, both parties got what they deserved. In this case, it's pretty clear the woman was not mentally ill, just an extreme b**** who had no good reason for provoking or swearing at the officer. She deserved 100% to get arrested and have more charges stacked upon her initially ticket. Tasered? Probably not. But when you excercise as bad judgment as she did, terrible things can (and do) happen... and they are ultimately your fault.

At the same time, the cop is clearly not trained or mentally able to handle the "public at large". He clearly used more force, and too quickly, than the situation required. He let a cranky old woman shouting obscenities get to him, and that's not a quality you want in your first responders. He needs to be in another job, either resigning or getting fired.

One thing that is going to make any disciplinary action interesting is the other case everyone is talking about: the shooting of the black teen who was asleep in his car. What will be the community outrage if the cop who tasered (but ultimately didn't harm) a 72 year old white woman gets fired, yet the cop who shot and killed a black teen asleep in his car (and without his dash cam on) keeps his job?

If I'm Art Acevedo, I'm calling the head of the Travis County Sheriff's dept, and saying PLEASE don't fire the guy yet. Let the APD investigation and punishment be handed out first, and hopefully it will be just as harsh or harsher than whatever happens to the Travis County cops...

[fitzy24]

Cops hate it when you get sassy with them. They get mad. It's the truth.

[Nor Cal Wahine]

Originally Posted by fitzy24

Cops hate it when you get sassy with them. They get mad. It's the truth.

I'd agree. It's not right but it is what it is. How's the old saying go ... "you can beat the rap, but not the ride".

I think one is better off in the long run by showing patience and restraint when dealing with an overzealous officer. You ALWAYS have the right to request that a supervisor be immediately brought out to the scene - you can even call 911 from a cell phone and report that you are being held by an officer and want a supervisor on the scene right away.