Religion And Liberalism In Austin (Houston, Dallas: credit, to buy, construction)

[1mintjulep]

Originally Posted by doctorjef

If Texas is not a sea of conservatives, how come it has Rick Perry for Gov., had GBW for Gov., has Kay Bailey Hutchison and that other dick for senators, had an anti-sodomy law that made homosexuality a crime until the US Supreme Court overturned it, and -- need I go on? Texas is a conservative ****-hole. Austin is a tolerable exception to the rest of the benighted state.

I think if you leave the major metropolitan areas, you're right - it is a sea of conservatives. The OP seemed to be under the impression that Austin was the only place in TX that wasn't "redneck central," which isn't true. There's a big difference, IMO, between the Dallas, Austin, Houston, and SA metro areas, and places like Lubbock, Tyler (which may not be as conservative as it was 30 years ago, but I still would not feel comfortable spending more than 20 minutes there, sorry), Texarkana, etc.

[TexasHorseLady]

Originally Posted by 1mintjulep

Tyler (which may not be as conservative as it was 30 years ago, but I still would not feel comfortable spending more than 20 minutes there, sorry),

Doesn't this say as much about your ability to be accepting and tolerant of those with a different viewpoint from yours as it does about the residents of Tyler?

[1mintjulep]

Originally Posted by TexasHorseLady

Doesn't this say as much about your ability to be accepting and tolerant of those with a different viewpoint from yours as it does about the residents of Tyler?

Perhaps. But I've never claimed I was tolerant of everyone - I'm not. I have a perfect right to be where I'm comfortable. There are all kinds of places I wouldn't want to spend 20 minutes (or 30 seconds) of my time, for one reason or another. Life is too short to spend it someplace that makes you miserable.

[TexasHorseLady]

Originally Posted by 1mintjulep

Perhaps. But I've never claimed I was tolerant of everyone - I'm not. I have a perfect right to be where I'm comfortable. There are all kinds of places I wouldn't want to spend 20 minutes (or 30 seconds) of my time, for one reason or another. Life is too short to spend it someplace that makes you miserable.

This is true, but you really probably shouldn't be saying that it's a problem with the people and the place, then, should you, but rather with how you fit in with them/it?

This may not apply to you, but I do find it interesting how many people on here who say that conservatives, say, are intolerant appear to be incapable of tolerance themselves.

This I say being neither conservative nor liberal (or perhaps some odd hybrid of the two?), but of the "A Pox On Both Your Houses" party, seeing precious little to choose from between the two main parties as far as their most basic attitude towards the citizens of this country.

[1mintjulep]

Originally Posted by TexasHorseLady

This is true, but you really probably shouldn't be saying that it's a problem with the people and the place, then, should you, but rather with how you fit in with them/it?

Fine - I don't fit in with conservatives. Or ultra-liberals, for that matter. Is that better?

I also don't really fit in with people who have kids, or most Christians. I can tolerate just fine, but tolerate to me just means "put up with." It doesn't mean "enjoy being around" or "actively seek out the company of."

[1mintjulep]

Originally Posted by 1mintjulep

I can tolerate just fine, but tolerate to me just means "put up with."

Actually, I take that back. I "tolerated" conservatism, fanatical Christianity, and openly racist and homophobic views for the first 20 years of my life. I've found that I had a finite amount of tolerance in me to begin with, and it got used up about 10 years ago. I won't make apologies for having gotten fed up.

I spent 20 years around people and viewpoints that I found abhorrent; the way I figure it, I've filled my lifetime quota of that crap. I didn't get to pick where I was born or where I was raised, but now that I'm an adult I get to pick the kinds of people I want to surround myself with, and I intend to do so without apology.

[TexasHorseLady]

Sounds, again, remarkably like the kind of vitriol that I've heard from people of the opposing persuasion - those racists, fanatics, and "conservatives" (you're making a huge assumption about what that word means and about what conservatives really believe) that you are talking about would likely say pretty much the same thing about you (or "liberals" or "people of whatever race they've chosen") with pretty much the same emphasis.

It's just an observation from here on the outside - six of one, half dozen of the other, when you get right down to it.

[1mintjulep]

Originally Posted by TexasHorseLady

Sounds, again, remarkably like the kind of vitriol that I've heard from people of the opposing persuasion - those racists, fanatics, and "conservatives" (you're making a huge assumption about what that word means and about what conservatives really believe) that you are talking about would likely say pretty much the same thing about you (or "liberals" or "people of whatever race they've chosen") with pretty much the same emphasis.

I spent my whole life up until the age of 20 thoroughly immersed in it - I'm not making assumptions, I lived around these people and am related to more than a few of them. They can say whatever they want about me, I'm beyond caring, but I won't listen to it.

And I don't consider myself *that* liberal, btw - my views on at least a couple of issues would probably be right in line with the Republican Party platform (though admittedly, it's just a couple of issues). I just don't care to spend my time around people who openly and unflinchingly refer to black people using the "n" word, make gagging noises whenever gay people are mentioned, or come up to strangers in bookstores and proceed to tell them how they need to be reading books about Jesus. And I personally experienced all of these things on a regular basis when I lived in Bossier City, LA.

[Jennibc]

Originally Posted by 1mintjulep

Fine - I don't fit in with conservatives. Or ultra-liberals, for that matter. Is that better?

I also don't really fit in with people who have kids, or most Christians. I can tolerate just fine, but tolerate to me just means "put up with." It doesn't mean "enjoy being around" or "actively seek out the company of."

Wow. What does that mean? What exactly are people who have kids like? Because I have kids and there are plenty of other people I know that have kids that I don't really fit in with either.

[austin-steve]

You may call it a conservative ****hole, but it sure is employing a lot of transplants from some, might I say, Pretty liberal parts of the country?

Exactly. Texas is, for the most part, governed as a fiscally conservative, no frills, business friendly state. And it sure helps that the monkeys are only let out of their cages every two years to do their finger painting.

I'd be interested to see if a correlation exists between voting patterns and economic health. We know how it's gone in California. How are the other solidly democratic states and/or or heavily unionized states weathering this economic mess? We know Texas is outperforming the rest of the country on almost any measure.

Is there any correlation or is it based on less obvious factors such as industry, affordability, etc?

Steve