Where do Austinites consider Austin to be regionally? (Beaumont, Port Arthur: homes, public schools)

[doctorjef]

Segregation didn't exist only in the South! Again, I don't think the appeal to history is persuasive. Austin isn't the same place it was 50 years ago. Geographically, it has always been where it is: in a Southwestern semi-arid rugged hill country. Culturally I'm sure it has changed quite a lot since the 1950s. The influx of Hispanics and people from out of state has made a major difference. The zeitgeist generally has changed a lot, no doubt. There has always been something of a looking toward the West that has characterised the city. Indeed, President Lamar wanted the capital of the Republic to be on the Western frontier, and in the 1970s Austin was all about the cosmic cowboy thing and a glorification of the Western - not the Southern - identity of Texas. UT has a monument or two to Southern heroes, but UT isn't synonymous with Austin and the monument of Lee was planted there a long time ago. Further, by the late 1970s/early 80s, UT and Austin apparently thought so little of Civil War-related history that they basically tore down the old brick barracks that had housed the federal occupation troops and which when I was at UT were the home of the Extension School (correspondence courses). What was left of the barracks was made unrecognisable and turned into that funky looking visitors centre up on the south side of MLK, just west of I-35. Over in Hyde Park there's a former Confederate Widows home that is barely marked, has no monument, and which I bet almost no one knows about. There's no collective memory or memorialisation of the Confederacy and the Lost Cause in Austin. You may contrast that with any other city that really is geographically and culturally in the South.

[mm57553]

Originally Posted by doctorjef

Segregation didn't exist only in the South! Again, I don't think the appeal to history is persuasive. Austin isn't the same place it was 50 years ago. Geographically, it has always been where it is: in a Southwestern semi-arid rugged hill country. Culturally I'm sure it has changed quite a lot since the 1950s. The influx of Hispanics and people from out of state has made a major difference. The zeitgeist generally has changed a lot, no doubt. There has always been something of a looking toward the West that has characterised the city. Indeed, President Lamar wanted the capital of the Republic to be on the Western frontier, and in the 1970s Austin was all about the cosmic cowboy thing and a glorification of the Western - not the Southern - identity of Texas. UT has a monument or two to Southern heroes, but UT isn't synonymous with Austin and the monument of Lee was planted there a long time ago. Further, by the late 1970s/early 80s, UT and Austin apparently thought so little of Civil War-related history that they basically tore down the old brick barracks that had housed the federal occupation troops and which when I was at UT were the home of the Extension School (correspondence courses). What was left of the barracks was made unrecognisable and turned into that funky looking visitors centre up on the south side of MLK, just west of I-35. Over in Hyde Park there's a former Confederate Widows home that is barely marked, has no monument, and which I bet almost no one knows about. There's no collective memory or memorialisation of the Confederacy and the Lost Cause in Austin. You may contrast that with any other city that really is geographically and culturally in the South.

I know segregation existed in other areas, but it seemed to last a heck of a lot longer in the South. There is also a pretty big statue of Robert E. Lee on UT's campus. And don't forget the Hays High School and their mascot, The Rebels. Their fight song is Dixie. Well, at least they took the Confederate flag down out front.

[gpurcell]

Originally Posted by theloneranger

50 years ago, were there signs above the water fountains that said "White" or "Colored?"

If the answer is yes, it's a Southern city.

So Haywarden, Iowa was Southern?

[TexasHorseLady]

Interesting article on this topic. Think I may have to get a copy of the book.

[doctorjef]

Originally Posted by mm57553

I know segregation existed in other areas, but it seemed to last a heck of a lot longer in the South. There is also a pretty big statue of Robert E. Lee on UT's campus. And don't forget the Hays High School and their mascot, The Rebels. Their fight song is Dixie. Well, at least they took the Confederate flag down out front.

Hays HS is in Hays County. It's not Austin. The football team name and the Confederate stuff was no doubt adopted a long time ago. They got rid of the battle flag when I was still living in Austin and there was a lot of news coverage over the whole thing. They adopted a "spirit flag" that looks rather like the battle flag. I think it's more to do with dealing with teenage students who got on the defensive when they felt some adults were trying to force a change on them. Moreover, the pressure was coming from outside -- from places like Austin.

[mm57553]

Originally Posted by TexasHorseLady

Interesting article on this topic. Think I may have to get a copy of the book.

As I mentioned, there was segregation evrywhere, but it seemed to last a lot longer in the South.

Also, he does still admit that segregation was more widespread in the South because it was mandated by law. The northern states had no such mandate.

I am also unaware of any Northern states that celebrate to this day Confederate War Heroes Day or any northern universities that have statues of Confederate generals on their campuses.

Every state had segregation. However, southern states (and Texas) are the only ones to glorify this history. It is not a history to be proud of.

[love roses]

You may be off in your opinion of what some southerners may be glorifying. I doubt any of them are super proud of segregation, but there are aspects of our culture that we ARE extremely proud of.

[TexasHorseLady]

I don't think that southern states (or Texas, which isn't a southern state) glorify segregation. What is recognized is the history, and the ancestors who fought and gave their lives for what they believed in (and if you think the War Between the States was only, or even primarily, about slavery, you've been drinking the koolaid or focusing on only one small aspect of the issues - it was MUCH more complicated than that).

However, if you read that article (written in 1970, by the way, did you notice?), you will note that while the south had laws regarding segregation, and those laws were pretty much followed, the north had laws AGAINST segregation and the cities and towns were so determined that they defied that law.

Here's another interesting link, this one about segregation in Detroit hospitals up until the 1950's/1960's.

[inthecut]

Austin really is its own little hermetically sealed island......politically, socially, culturally, etc.....and the city barely is on the one with the state it itself is in, let along the national region of the same....

[doctorjef]

Again, in Texas the statues of Confederate heroes were put up a century ago. They don't have much relevance today. The Confederacy just isn't celebrated in Texas the way it is in every other state you would consider to be Southern. The question is: what region does Austin fall into? The question was in regard to Austin, not in regard to other areas of Texas. The legacy of the Old South has lost its sway everywhere in Texas other than the true areas of East Texas and Southeast Texas (the latter being mainly Jefferson and Orange Counties, including Beaumont, Port Arthur, Orange, Vidor, Port Neches and a few other little places).