06-29-2009, 10:28 PM
Location: Texas
5,872 posts, read
8,090,819 times
Reputation: 2971
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Drover
You patrol these forums giving absolutely hideous legal advice using bizarre, nonsensical, and just plain false legal reasoning to anyone willing to listen to your babbling foolishness. You don't know what you're talking about, so zip it. The constitutionality of roadblocks have been established for decades. See United States v. Martinez-Fuerte , 428 U.S. 543 (1976) and Michigan Dept. of State Police v. Sitz , 496 U.S. 444 (1990).
Um no they haven't. For Texas see State v. Holt, you can also read Indianapolis v. Edmund.
Suspicion less search's/roadblocks/checkpoints are not looked upon favorable by the SCOTUS.
And as far as Michigan v. Sitz, I can't believe that someone will not challenge that ruling especially with CJ Rehnquist's now public use and abuse of prescription drugs.
06-30-2009, 12:45 AM
Location: Chicago
38,707 posts, read
103,138,905 times
Reputation: 29983
Quote:
Originally Posted by
txgolfer130
Um no they haven't. For Texas see State v. Holt, you can also read Indianapolis v. Edmund.
1) In
Holtz, the Texas Court of Criminal Appeals interpreted
Sitz to read that roadblocks are unconstitutional absent legislative authority and statewide guidelines. A bill to do just that had been winding its way through the Texas legislature, having already cleared the senate and been endorsed by the governor. If this bill never cleared the house, then one would indeed wonder where the authorization for this checkpoint came from. So did this law pass or not? I can't find any solid information one way or the other.
2)
Edmond is distinguishable from
Holz because the roadblock in question served a "general" law enforcement purpose (narcotics interdiction) unrelated to the method used; whereas vehicular checkpoints to ensure highway safety and legal operation of the vehicle are related to the method used. An analogy applicable to DUI enforcement would be law enforcement trying to prevent DUIs by stopping people walking down the street, because this method is not related to improving roadway safety. If this sounds like hair-splitting, well, it is. Lawyers are good at that. But, basically you are right that law enforcement can't erect roadblocks using any justification they feel like; and by not qualifying my response, I did make it sound like they are constitutional any time for any reason, so I will concede you that point. However, DUI compliance is a justification the courts will allow. Same with drivers license/insurance-compliance checkpoints. And these are the justifications law enforcement uses for, I would estimate, about 98% of all roadblocks. I'm not saying I agree with the legal reasoning the USSC has used to craft the "special needs exception" that allows these roadblocks ("well, we'll toss out 4th Amendment jurisprudence now and then when it's just plain too burdensome on law enforcement") -- in fact, I hate it -- but that's where the law stands for now.
3) I would love to see the legal precedent or even a convincing legal argument to establish the precedent that a judge's prior prescription pain-med addiction is grounds to challenge the constitutionality of a subsequent legal precedent. For that matter, I'd like to see the precedent or argument that an
ongoing pain-med addiction while the case was argued and decided is grounds for challenge.
06-30-2009, 09:05 AM
Location: Austin
2,522 posts, read
6,035,128 times
Reputation: 707
The main point is, police departments have instituted seat belt laws as a trojan horse to pull you over/search your vehicle. They essentially get a blank check to pull over and search any car, and have the law backing them up per the whole bill of rights thing.........I can't see how the US Supreme Court hasn't knocked that off the books.......just shy of planting evidence/drugs on an arrestee...illegal in letter AND spirit of the law.....
The 4th amendment prohibits using seat belt laws as a cover for pulling and searching cars at will..
try reading it again, and see what I mean.....the Founding Fathers would roll over it they knew..
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized
06-30-2009, 04:24 PM
Location: Chicago
38,707 posts, read
103,138,905 times
Reputation: 29983
Police departments don't institute laws.
07-01-2009, 10:53 AM
Location: Texas
989 posts, read
2,497,762 times
Reputation: 698
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marylee54
Click it or Ticket!
I agree with the seat belt law 100%, however, I have a friend who refuses to wear one. Ok, that's her business as an adult, I guess, but what would be my liability if stopped and I'm drivving, she's the passenger and not wearing her seat belt? We've had arguments about this before
This nanny-state attitude infuriates me. If I don't want to wear a seatbelt and not endanger ANYONE but myself, that's my prerogative! We don't need laws protecting us from ourselves!
07-01-2009, 10:58 AM
Location: Texas
989 posts, read
2,497,762 times
Reputation: 698
Thanks for all the advice everyone. He was standing in front of my vehicle, my headlights were on so he couldn't see inside, and stopped me for no reason then after looking in and asking for my documents, saw lack of a seat belt. I am going to at least try to fight it.
07-01-2009, 11:31 AM
Location: The Village
1,621 posts, read
4,592,390 times
Reputation: 692
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ATXIronHorse
Thanks for all the advice everyone. He was standing in front of my vehicle, my headlights were on so he couldn't see inside, and stopped me for no reason then after looking in and asking for my documents, saw lack of a seat belt. I am going to at least try to fight it.
Have fun paying the extra money for court costs! I wish I had cash to throw away like that!
07-01-2009, 02:51 PM
Location: Central Texas
20,958 posts, read
45,383,992 times
Reputation: 24740
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ATXIronHorse
This nanny-state attitude infuriates me. If I don't want to wear a seatbelt and not endanger ANYONE but myself, that's my prerogative! We don't need laws protecting us from ourselves!
Okay, I HATE nanny states, but here's a question - do you have health insurance? If you do, and you are seriously injured as a result of not wearing your seatbelt, insurance rates, already abysmally high, go up for the rest of us. If you're not, we pay for your care with our taxes. If it were possible for you legally not to be treated in the event that you were injured in a car accident in which the seat belt would have prevented or considerably lessened those injuries, would you be on board with that, with taking SOLE responsibility for the consequences of your actions?
How about an accident in which you are not the only vehicle, and you are thrown from your seat so that you no longer have control of the vehicle, and someone else is seriously injured or dies as a result of that?
By all means, though, if you object to the seatbelt law, fight it in the appropriate ways, by trying to get enough people to agree with you and bring pressure on your legislators to change the law. However, if you know the law, and you deliberately violated it because "I don't like that law" (what would happen if we thought this was a hunky dory attitude for everyone, to only obey those laws that they liked? - think about it), and you got caught and you got a ticket, sorry, but you're whining and you're refusing to take personal responsibility for the consequences of your actions but trying to get out of them. That's pretty black and white.
07-01-2009, 04:21 PM
Location: Dripping Springs , TX
786 posts, read
2,761,099 times
Reputation: 238
I just find it amazing that states have to implement a law for something that should be common sense.
01-09-2012, 10:52 AM
Location: Cleveland, AR
1 posts, read
1,288 times
Reputation: 10
Is no seat belt probable cause?
Is this in fact true in Arkansas? I was recently stopped by an Arkansas State Trooper who said up front that was the reason he stopped me. (I had had my belt on and foolishly released it once I pulled over and stopped.) Which told me he could not have possibly told if I was wearing it or not to begin with, it just became convenient. (This Trooper has a rep for being a real TOOL anyway. So there was no way he was listening to the truth.) I'm a retired Army Officer, Missionary Baptist Minister and this is the FIRST TICKET I have ever received but none of that swayed this guy. What I'm trying to decide is whether I have any real chance in fighting the citation. Does anyone have any advise?
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People in Group quarters - Military ships (%)
People in Group quarters - Group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes or halfway houses for drug/alcohol abuse (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally retarded (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Other group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Religious group quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - Dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Agriculture workers' dormitories on farms (%)
People in Group quarters - Job Corps and vocational training facilities (%)
People in Group quarters - Other workers' dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Crews of maritime vessels (%)
People in Group quarters - Other nonhousehold living situations (%)
People in Group quarters - Other noninstitutional group quarters (%)
Residents speaking English at home (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking other language at home (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Foreign born (%)
Class of Workers - Employee of private company (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed in own incorporated business (%)
Class of Workers - Private not-for-profit wage and salary workers (%)
Class of Workers - Local government workers (%)
Class of Workers - State government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Federal government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed workers in own not incorporated business and Unpaid family workers (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - No fuel used (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - No fuel used (%)
Armed forces status - In Armed Forces (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Veteran (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Nonveteran (%)
Fatal accidents locations in years 2005-2021
Fatal accidents locations in 2005
Fatal accidents locations in 2006
Fatal accidents locations in 2007
Fatal accidents locations in 2008
Fatal accidents locations in 2009
Fatal accidents locations in 2010
Fatal accidents locations in 2011
Fatal accidents locations in 2012
Fatal accidents locations in 2013
Fatal accidents locations in 2014
Fatal accidents locations in 2015
Fatal accidents locations in 2016
Fatal accidents locations in 2017
Fatal accidents locations in 2018
Fatal accidents locations in 2019
Fatal accidents locations in 2020
Fatal accidents locations in 2021
Alcohol use - People drinking some alcohol every month (%)
Alcohol use - People not drinking at all (%)
Alcohol use - Average days/month drinking alcohol
Alcohol use - Average drinks/week
Alcohol use - Average days/year people drink much
Audiometry - Average condition of hearing (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear a whisper from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear normal voice from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - Ears ringing, roaring, buzzing (%)
Audiometry - Had a job exposure to loud noise (%)
Audiometry - Had off-work exposure to loud noise (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high blood pressure (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Checking blood pressure at home (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Frequently checking blood cholesterol (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high cholesterol level (%)
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at supermarket/grocery store
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at other stores
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on eating out
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on carryout/delivered foods
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at supermarket/grocery store (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at other stores (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on eating out (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on carryout/delivered foods (%)
Current Health Status - General health condition (%)
Current Health Status - Blood donors (%)
Current Health Status - Has blood ever tested for HIV virus (%)
Current Health Status - Left-handed people (%)
Dermatology - People using sunscreen (%)
Diabetes - Diabetics (%)
Diabetes - Had a blood test for high blood sugar (%)
Diabetes - People taking insulin (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Diet health (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Milk product consumption (# of products/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals not home prepared (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals from fast food or pizza place (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Ready-to-eat foods (#/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Frozen meals/pizza (#/month)
Drug Use - People that ever used marijuana or hashish (%)
Drug Use - Ever used hard drugs (%)
Drug Use - Ever used any form of cocaine (%)
Drug Use - Ever used heroin (%)
Drug Use - Ever used methamphetamine (%)
Health Insurance - People covered by health insurance (%)
Kidney Conditions-Urology - Avg. # of times urinating at night
Medical Conditions - People with asthma (%)
Medical Conditions - People with anemia (%)
Medical Conditions - People with psoriasis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with overweight (%)
Medical Conditions - Elderly people having difficulties in thinking or remembering (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever received blood transfusion (%)
Medical Conditions - People having trouble seeing even with glass/contacts (%)
Medical Conditions - People with arthritis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with gout (%)
Medical Conditions - People with congestive heart failure (%)
Medical Conditions - People with coronary heart disease (%)
Medical Conditions - People with angina pectoris (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had heart attack (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had stroke (%)
Medical Conditions - People with emphysema (%)
Medical Conditions - People with thyroid problem (%)
Medical Conditions - People with chronic bronchitis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with any liver condition (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had cancer or malignancy (%)
Mental Health - People who have little interest in doing things (%)
Mental Health - People feeling down, depressed, or hopeless (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble sleeping or sleeping too much (%)
Mental Health - People feeling tired or having little energy (%)
Mental Health - People with poor appetite or overeating (%)
Mental Health - People feeling bad about themself (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble concentrating on things (%)
Mental Health - People moving or speaking slowly or too fast (%)
Mental Health - People having thoughts they would be better off dead (%)
Oral Health - Average years since last visit a dentist
Oral Health - People embarrassed because of mouth (%)
Oral Health - People with gum disease (%)
Oral Health - General health of teeth and gums (%)
Oral Health - Average days a week using dental floss/device
Oral Health - Average days a week using mouthwash for dental problem
Oral Health - Average number of teeth
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to control insects (%)
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to kill weeds (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People walking or bicycling (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - Average hours a day doing sedentary activities
Physical Activity - Average hours a day watching TV or videos
Physical Activity - Average hours a day using computer
Physical Functioning - People having limitations keeping them from working (%)
Physical Functioning - People limited in amount of work they can do (%)
Physical Functioning - People that need special equipment to walk (%)
Physical Functioning - People experiencing confusion/memory problems (%)
Physical Functioning - People requiring special healthcare equipment (%)
Prescription Medications - Average number of prescription medicines taking
Preventive Aspirin Use - Adults 40+ taking low-dose aspirin (%)
Reproductive Health - Vaginal deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Cesarean deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Deliveries resulted in a live birth (%)
Reproductive Health - Pregnancies resulted in a delivery (%)
Reproductive Health - Women breastfeeding newborns (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had a hysterectomy (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had both ovaries removed (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever taken birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women taking birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used Depo-Provera or injectables (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used female hormones (%)
Sexual Behavior - People 18+ that ever had sex (vaginal, anal, or oral) (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had anal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had any sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had anal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had any kind of sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first had sex
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female vaginal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a woman (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of woman performed oral sex on in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male anal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a man (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male oral sex partners in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - People using protection when performing oral sex (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of times people have vaginal or anal sex a year
Sexual Behavior - People having sex without condom (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male vaginal sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Circumcised males 18+ (%)
Sleep Disorders - Average hours sleeping at night
Sleep Disorders - People that has trouble sleeping (%)
Smoking-Cigarette Use - People smoking cigarettes (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with smell (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with taste (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had wisdom teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had tonsils teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a loss of consciousness because of a head injury (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a broken nose or other serious injury to face or skull (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had two or more sinus infections (%)
Weight - Average height (inches)
Weight - Average weight (pounds)
Weight - Average BMI
Weight - People that are obese (%)
Weight - People that ever were obese (%)
Weight - People trying to lose weight (%)
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Is no seat belt probable cause?
