Grocery Stores: What's up (Dallas, Pflugerville: cost, shoppers, moving to)

[Trainwreck20]

the point is, H-E-B is a MONOPOLY in Austin and SA, and has gotten that way by predatory pricing,

Bah! Albertson's was very similar in price, they just bled money from poor management and heavy debt load. In my opinion (which is in line with Texas anti-competitive laws), you are only doing something illegal if you price the product below the cost required to bring to market (included material, transportation, labor, commercial property costs, etc) at a specific location. If you simply narrow your margins to a minimum, you are simply competing in the market, even though some might consider that predatory pricing, apparently. I guess if we all paid 10 or 15% more for our food, but could chose WHICH place we paid that 10 or 15% more for it (same food as now, btw), then that would be much better? Maybe state mandated pricing?

Many years ago, I basically lived between an HEB and an Albertson's for around five years, but ended up going to HEB more and more for both product quality and employee quality. Prices really had little to nothing to do with it, since they were both about the same price. Also, Albertson's required some sort of card at that time, too (not sure if they still do) and that has always irked me for some hard to define reason.

If you don't like HEB, go shop at Randalls, there are still enough of them around. I don't mean this in a facetious way, either. If enough people start showing an interest in alternatives, there will be alternatives. I chose not to pay more, though, since I am satisfied with HEB. If and when I am dissatisfied, I will go elsewhere.

look at all the air pollution dumped into the air in texas' metros

Separate topic, but the vast majority of air pollution in any metro, even Houston, is cars. Every time EPA tries to do something about cars, people go all ape and scream gov't interferance. We like to pay indirectly and inefficiently - make industry do MORE controls (with vastly dimishing returns and exponentially increasing costs) and drive prices up so we HAVE to buy from a third world country and HAVE to ship jobs overseas.

[L3XVS]

Originally Posted by inthecut

Target and Wal-mart the only competitors to HEB in SA? That's beyond sad.........so in SA, no only do you have no supermarket competetion, and zero local mom and pop groceries, but just ONE player in almost the ENTIRE grocery market..and this in the 7th largest city in the US, with a population of 1.3 million plus.......

Yes, it's quite unbelievable. Truthfully, I think HEB might make up around eighty percent of the grocer business in San Antonio because they are deep rooted in nearly every part of the city, while Target only has several locations in middle to upper middle class areas.

Wal-Marts are everywhere, but not all of them have a grocery section, and again, are much harder to find than HEB's, which are on seemingly every corner. There's also one (quite pathetic) Whole Foods that never seems to have fresh produce or meats, lacks selection, and can literally fit in the entire beer and wine section in one of Austin's fabulous Whole Foods.

If you ever have the chance to visit, or god forbid, live in San Antonio, you will find that although it is technically the seventh largest city (due in part to the cities aggressive annexation policies) that economically and infrastrucurally, it operates like a much, much smaller city (think Orlando, Louisville, or Portland) and lacks the culture, business mentality, and economic wealth of its fellow top-10 status counterparts.

And no, it's not just the grocer business. The "one is enough" mentality, as I've so dubbed it, is regnant amongst many businesses - certain car dealerships, car washes, specialty stores, etc. Almost all are home grown, and locals just don't seem to care, or notice that there's no other competition. It's extremely frusterating but can also explain why, on average, the quality of service one receives across the spectrum is vastly inferior in San Antonio than it is in many other metros, including Austin.

As I said before, without competition, businesses have no reason to modify or improve their products, services, or business model. Yes, San Antonio is basically an over grown hick town that still operates like the isolated, out of the way podunk city it once was (and very much still is).

[atlanta hope]

From ClarkHoward.com's site:

Jul 09, 2009 -- Alice.com offers a new way to get brand names for less

Kroger -- the nation's second largest grocer behind Wal-Mart -- has been selling an unprecedented amount of private label goods. According to the latest quarterly report, 1 in 3 items being sold in the store is Kroger's own brand!

With so much mojo surrounding store brands, manufacturers have started trying to bypass the retailers by selling their brands online at new ultra-cheap websites.

Alice.com is one such example where you can get brand names cheaper than just about anywhere else.

Currently in beta, Alice claims to be cheaper than Amazon for groceries. And Alice always offers free shipping and applies current e-coupons right to your order so you don't have to do any clipping.

Clark thinks we'll see more attempts like this from the brand names to get back into your shopping basket.

It's kind of similar to the outlet store phenomenon, where brand names opened their own retail locations as the department stores and mall retailers moved toward private labels.

Alice.com offers a new way to get brand names for less on clarkhoward.com

[austinite45]

Originally Posted by Zzyzx

Good observation, and yes grocery prices are high because of it.

In my experience, HEB exploits it's consumers based on demographics. They have every right to do so without any real competition.

I can find cheaper items in Laguna Beach Ca. where the average home is 1.2 million

So you are saying that HEB has every right to exploit consumers in Austin?

[inthecut]

Let's wrap this thread up....no one seems to care.... H-E-B will control the Austin market eternally(prob ratcheting up to 70% or more, more if they buy out randalls), and thank god they seem to be treating people good for now.....question is, where will it/we be 5-10 years from now? Another question..will they corner the organic market too, with the "Central Market" concept? Would that not be mondo bizarre for a city's major conventional grocer to own the local organic produce market as well? How about the situation for the poor sap suppliers that either sell to HEB in Austin, or don't sell at all?

Who knows? No one cares....and I don't either......

Put a fork in this thread, TW!

[datacity]

Here Everything's Better!

Some thoughts:

1 - If you want more options, vote with your $$$; the best way is to get the proletariat to shop anywhere but the monopolistic evil store. If they cannot afford to do it or choose not to do it, well what do you want? Maybe the government will step in and offer vouchers?

2 - Whether you get there by earning it, being smarter, or through predatory activities, once you are a monopoly (any company in any industry), be ready to be at least regulated more than the other smaller competitors. That is; be ready to have to justify your plans to any and all governments due to your market power. Oh, and if you did grow through in a predatory way, be ready to be split up. Of course, this only works if the government does its job.

There are few alternatives because dumb grocery stores decided to grow with too much debt, decided to price their products higher than other stores without offering better service and couldn't basically compete... or else they sold out.

Now then, if you want the government to pay a little more attention once a company has market power in a city, state, country or world, call your representative or senator if you see blatant predatory pricing and monopolistic behavior.

Be the change in your world or else watch the world change without you.

[Jennibc]

Originally Posted by inthecut

Again, HEB itself is not evil, but their complete stranglehold on local grocery options very much is......the only way they get away with it is because people are so jaded, with so few shopping options period, they just don't care anymore.......

I TOTALLY disagree with this. When I moved back to Seattle from Austin in 2001 we really MISSED HEB. That was not result of having no options it was because it was a good grocery store, with good prices, good selection and good service....at least the ones that we shopped at. When we moved back, we literally almost jumped for joy as we walked through the new one at Escarpment Village. Not exactly the actions of a jaded people.

[imaterry78259]

How does Publix shape up against HEB? Is Trader Joe ever coming to Texas. Fiesta is a poor man Whole Food store

[TexasHorseLady]

I've never shopped at a Publix, so I don't know.

If the Californians who are members of the Trader Joe cult have their way, it will, but I wouldn't hold your breath. The rest of us don't much care one way or the other.

Fiesta is actually considerably different from Whole Foods and carries a much different selection. I go there for things I can't get at Whole Foods or HEB or one of the other groceries I frequent, and to Whole Foods or HEB or Central Market for things I can't get at Fiesta.

The first Fiesta was in Houston, I believe, and the only reason we got one here was because the owner's mother lived here and gave him heck until he built one here so she could shop at it easily! That's the story that was put forth by them at the time they built it, anyway. There used to be another little grocery, MUCH smaller than Fiesta, in that shopping center, over on the other side of it, that I shopped at regularly when I lived over in Delwood decades ago.

[verybadgnome]

Originally Posted by TexasHorseLady

If the Californians who are members of the Trader Joe cult have their way, it will, but I wouldn't hold your breath. The rest of us don't much care one way or the other.

Actually people on both the left coast and right coast really like their Trader Joe's. It was the only affordable grocery store in the D.C. area with decent quality food when I lived there.