Austin growth will absolutely overwhelm roads and highways starting in 2011 - new study (West: condos, hotel)

[Jennibc]

Originally Posted by inthecut

No large metro has a perfect, free-flowing road/traffic system....and many have horrendous gridlock on freeways AND major thoroughfares....that's just the nature of so many people driving so many cars...
now, a family of 4 with two teens usually has 4-5 cars, people are more apt to take car loans, (and far less apt to pool with others...call it the "bowling alone" syndrome, or anonymity of living in souless subdivisions).....and parents drive kids just about everywhere, whereas they would go themselves with bikes/walking years back......and all seniors that CAN drive as well....add the lack/use of public trans in almost every large metro, and you have crappy traffic just about everywhere..

Austin, being no different that anyplace else, with many residents from just about every place else, and with an abject lack of public trans, is very much a part of that club......it would be a wonder if anyone EXPECTED Austin to be anything different....

Where are people like these? I've never known a family with four cars. Typically two, sometimes three if a teenager purchase a car his or herself.

[CptnRn]

Originally Posted by inthecut
No large metro has a perfect, free-flowing road/traffic system....and many have horrendous gridlock on freeways AND major thoroughfares....that's just the nature of so many people driving so many cars...
now, a family of 4 with two teens usually has 4-5 cars, people are more apt to take car loans, (and far less apt to pool with others...call it the "bowling alone" syndrome, or anonymity of living in souless subdivisions).....and parents drive kids just about everywhere, whereas they would go themselves with bikes/walking years back......and all seniors that CAN drive as well....add the lack/use of public trans in almost every large metro, and you have crappy traffic just about everywhere..

Austin, being no different that anyplace else, with many residents from just about every place else, and with an abject lack of public trans, is very much a part of that club......it would be a wonder if anyone EXPECTED Austin to be anything different....

Originally Posted by Jennibc

Where are people like these? I've never known a family with four cars. Typically two, sometimes three if a teenager purchase a car his or herself.

I know of 5 families, with 2 high school kids each, who own 4-5 cars. 4 of the families live in the 78749 area, one lives near zilker park. I doubt it is unusual, 2 parents both working in different parts of town, 2 kids both earning their own money and with different schedules, all want their independence. In the case of the 5th car, one is a pick up truck used primarily for pulling their horse trailer and one is an cherished old sports car that is kept in the garage most of the time.

[CptnRn]

Originally Posted by inthecut

They won't keep Comin' if the area gets a reputation as an overcrowded hellhole........

They will if its constantly publicized as one of the top ten best overcrowded hellholes to live and work in.

[CptnRn]

Originally Posted by eepstein

This is actually a good thing. There are no plans for any road work in Austin for at least the next 10 years. The horse and buggy road system will remain in it's 1960's look for the forseeable future. The gridlock will become so bad in Austin that people will relocate elsewhere because the quality of life will continue to decrease (similar to what is happening now). Austin has far too many people and a train wreck city council that couldn't care less about Austin growth patterns. SPRAWL SPRAWL SPRAWL!!! Austin will probably eventually become one of the biggest polluter cities in the nation as well. It's already the capital of the biggest polluting state!!! Oh Austin, the good times are nearly done!

Don't go blaming TrianWreck for the City Council, he has only one vote. Also the situation we are in is the result of successive City Councils, not just the current one, and all of them are doing what they think you the citizens of Austin want them to do. If they are not hearing your opinion on things it is your fault for not getting involved and making sure they hear you.

[Jennibc]

Originally Posted by CptnRn

I know of 5 families, with 2 high school kids each, who own 4-5 cars. 4 of the families live in the 78749 area, one lives near zilker park. I doubt it is unusual, 2 parents both working in different parts of town, 2 kids both earning their own money and with different schedules, all want their independence. In the case of the 5th car, one is a pick up truck used primarily for pulling their horse trailer and one is an cherished old sports car that is kept in the garage most of the time.

We must run in different circles. That or it was having spent the last eight years in Seattle proper. I honestly have never known a family with four or five cars. I guess you can check back with me when all of my neighbors' kids reach driving age.

[CptnRn]

Originally Posted by TexasHorseLady

Well, I live outside of Austin, but own property in Austin and pay taxes on it - even higher taxes than I would if I lived in town and had the homestead exemption (my property taxes on my house in Austin are approximately 4 to 5 times higher than the the property taxes on the ranch where we live, though that's NOT why we lived here - for some reason, the City of Austin didn't want me keeping my horses on my tiny lot off the greenbelt, go figure). Also, my husband owned a business until very recently in Austin and paid property taxes on it (plus a whole bunch of other taxes).

When I do come to Austin, it's to work or to shop, thus supporting the businesses that support the infrastructure with their taxes (and I try to shop local whenever possible, whether it's in Austin or in Georgetown or wherever I happen to be). I purchase gasoline (well, diesel) both in and outside of Austin in order to drive on those roads.

If you live in Austin, and don't want anyone else using "your" roads, then presumably you will decline to accept any TxDot or other statewide funds for upkeep of "your" roads, correct? And you will not drive on the roads that you did not pay for (by your reasoning, those of any other community where you do not own property), correct?

I'm sorry, but this attitude just does not compute to me. The roads belong to, and are paid for, by us all. That is, in fact, one of the primary purposes of government, to provide the infrastructure by combining all of our funds in a way that is more efficient than if each of us were personally responsible for paving and maintaining the strip of road in front of our property, so that we all can use all of them. Most of the rest of what government takes as its right these days is NOT its purpose, but maintaining roads most definitely is, and those roads don't stop at the city limits.

The vast majority of people who live outside of Austin and commute in do not own property in Austin and so do not contribute much at all to the Austin roads they drive on every day. So your points are invalid.

You are not entitled to a homestead exemption in a home that is not your primary residence, Just like any other person who lives in Austin and owns more then one property, as I do, so there is no reason for you to be whining about it. The fact remains that you are not paying anywhere close to your share of the infrastructure costs that you admit using every week.

No Correct! I never said anything of the sort. I did not say I did not want anyone else to use my roads and you know it. I said I want people who use the roads to pay their fair share for building and maintaining them. And by and large those of you who live outside of the City limits are not doing so. You contribute a substantial burden to the road infrastructure at very little cost to yourself, and then constantly complain about how bad the roads are.

As you pointed out, the citizens that live and work in Austin pay far higher property taxes then you do, because we are paying more then our fair share. We also pay more taxes on gasoline and other state and county taxes then you do. Far more then our fair share, so again we are paying for the majority of the cost of the county and state and federally funded highways and services that you use ever day.

[CptnRn]

Originally Posted by S6Sputnik

Lets just build BIGGER ROADS and invite more people!

If we build them, they will come!

[TexasHorseLady]

You are not paying more than your fair share, and as was pointed out earlier, the money for roads comes from ALL the citizens of Texas, not just you. And I wasn't whining, just pointing out, using the most readily to hand example, myself, that not everyone fits neatly into the box you've designed and constructed to make your point that we shouldn't be using "your" roads.

What about the other points? Are you willing to not drive on the roads that you don't pay for? The point that I pay for gasoline (well, diesel, which these days costs more than gasoline) in Austin as much as anywhere else, that I spend my money in local businesses, etc., as do the other people who live in, say, Round Rock and work in Austin? What about the people who rent in Austin but don't own property there? Shouldn't they not be driving on your roads?

It's not that simple, not that black and white, and the money doesn't all come out of your pocket.

[CptnRn]

I never once made the statement "we shouldn't be using "your" roads". My point has always been that you are not paying your fair share for the infrastructure that you are using. You constantly try to twist other peoples comments to turn them into an argument they were not making. The other points you made are irrelevant because they were in regard to arguments that I did not ever make.

People who rent and live in Austin are already paying property taxes via the landlord, I'm amazed that I have to explain that to you.

The citizens of Austin and I already pay more taxes for the infrastructure outside of the City then you do, so we are entitled to use it. Go back and read what I wrote, I'm not going to parse it out for you.

[Jennibc]

Originally Posted by CptnRn

I never once made the statement "we shouldn't be using "your" roads". My point has always been that you are not paying your fair share for the infrastructure that you are using. You constantly try to twist other peoples comments to turn them into an argument they were not making. The other points you made are irrelevant because they were in regard to arguments that I did not ever make.

People who rent and live in Austin are already paying property taxes via the landlord, I'm amazed that I have to explain that to you.

The citizens of Austin and I already pay more taxes for the infrastructure outside of the City then you do, so we are entitled to use it. Go back and read what I wrote, I'm not going to parse it out for you.

Most of the roads we drive on were built decades ago so none of us paid for the initial capital outlay. I think this argument is somewhat absurd. It reminds me of the people complaining about having taxes go to schools when they have no children. Of course, plenty of other people paid taxes to support education when they WERE going to school and not paying taxes. No matter where you live in this city, at one time the roads were new and someone had to pay for them, likely years ago, and those someones are not necessarily using them today.