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My statement specifically was that my take was that some people were overanalyzing a specific query ("what do you do"), I never said that folks were overanalyzing in general. Others have explicitly stated that they find the question out of place in contexts in which others have explicitly stated that they don't think is out of place at all. I know what the assumption is that is disturbing to some, I simply don't agree that all/most/many of the situations in which the question is asked is specifically intended to determine the "worthiness" of a person specifically because they happen to be black.
Plus it's funny how you start your paragraph chastising me for "not knowing" what people are thinking/feeling but then you explicitly go and say that you "KNOW" that I don't understand. Your claimed "knowledge" is based on a few posts on a message board, how does that make those observations any more "accurate" than mine?
Anyway, contrary to what you may think, I "know" what you're talking about. I've never said that I've _never_ experienced racism, here or anywhere else I've lived. As I've stated before, I simply haven't experienced it to the same degree nor have I had it be as negative an experience as others here have reported.
It would be interesting to know if the varied experiences as seen on this thread and especially with my own experience (and that of Autae's experience) of feeling like I have to qualify myself, fully review my credentials, education, past GPA's :-) and what I do for a living when meeting some of the white folks here in Austin has something to do with age or the appearance of age? I am 40 years old but often get carded for beer and liqour. Many times when I am asked a barrage of questions (that I frankly don't care to know about the person asking), I feel like they are amazed or intrigued. Its almost like they want to know "how did YOU get here"? I am normally not sensitive to nosey people but it often feels different when it happens here in atx. This makes me think it has to do with the combination of my dark complextion and the perception that I am younger than I am. It often feels like they are looking at me with skepticism. At first I thought it was just me until a white friend of mine from up north who now lives here as well noticed and asked me "why were they grilling you so hard?" I have noticed that black folks that "appear" to be older dont seem to have the same issue but I do not know this for a fact. I also notice that my wife who is attractive and light skinned does not seem to get as many qualifying questions when meeting new people here. HMMM.. how can I make this a fun social experiment?:-)
The unemployment rate for African Americans is always higher than whites for many reasons like education opportunities, experience etc
You said it right there... While it's a counter-productive practice for the long term, companies are not hiring people who are underqualified or even qualified for positions. They are hiring people who are overqualified. It's a numbers game in the short term, as companies can dramatically reduce their hiring costs by dedicating less time to training (which can save anywhere from $5-20k on an employee for a non-management position) and also they can get employees that will perform duties well beyond their job descriptions. So if you are a hiring manager at Big Company Inc, and you need a low level financial analyst and you have a choice between White Guy A who is twice as likely to have a college degree as Black Guy A, then White Guy A gets the upper hand. And on top of it, if White Guy A is a former financial manager who got laid off and is potentially more desperate for work than the average unemployed person (because he probably overspent on a $500k mortgage and a new big SUV), you'll get to hire him cheap, not have to train him on much, barely supervise him and get him to do a ton of extra work for low pay.
Is that the case every time? No. There are certainly plenty of racist people out there, and some of them are certainly HR managers. Some may not be actively racist, but still believe in foolish old stereotypes (ie - eastern Europeans were often perceived to be harder workers). However, the majority of the time it comes down to competition and supply/demand. When the economy was good, being less educated, experienced and connected was a major detriment to your job search. When the unemployment rate is double what it used to be? (or really, more like triple when you count the people who ran out of benefits, took major pay cuts, etc) Well, if you're not overqualified for the job, you're out of luck. Yes, I had a relatively easy time finding work in Austin... but, as someone who is white as snow, fairly well-connected, well-educated, well-qualified, I had to take work that was somewhat below my desired responsibility level and pay grade. It's not as bad as being unemployed, but the fact is that when it's the worst recession in over 80 years, it's going to impact everyone, regardless of skin color. These are hard times for the entire planet, not just one person or one group of people.
It would be interesting to know if the varied experiences as seen on this thread and especially with my own experience (and that of Autae's experience) of feeling like I have to qualify myself, fully review my credentials, education, past GPA's :-) and what I do for a living when meeting some of the white folks here in Austin has something to do with age or the appearance of age? I am 40 years old but often get carded for beer and liqour. Many times when I am asked a barrage of questions (that I frankly don't care to know about the person asking), I feel like they are amazed or intrigued. Its almost like they want to know "how did YOU get here"? I am normally not sensitive to nosey people but it often feels different when it happens here in atx. This makes me think it has to do with the combination of my dark complextion and the perception that I am younger than I am. It often feels like they are looking at me with skepticism. At first I thought it was just me until a white friend of mine from up north who now lives here as well noticed and asked me "why were they grilling you so hard?" I have noticed that black folks that "appear" to be older dont seem to have the same issue but I do not know this for a fact. I also notice that my wife who is attractive and light skinned does not seem to get as many qualifying questions when meeting new people here. HMMM.. how can I make this a fun social experiment?:-)
I'm not going to pretend I am in tune with the black community, but I can't say I've seen anything like that. But regardless of what you do; if you have a degree(s) and a lot of work experience while at the same time looking like you might be a teenager, I'd say it's your age and not your race. If I met some white guy who looked like he was a freshman at UT and he started going on about high doctoral thesis I'd probably have a lot of suspicions myself. Try bringing up your age before bragging about your accomplishments and see if you get a reaction just based on that.
Sorry for the bible. I am so happy to see some similar view points as it pertains to Austin and life for a black professional. I love the Austin lifestyle but now realize that being around more professional black people and there families is not just so that I have more black friends, but so that the other cultures around me are more apt to be understanding of my culture and realize that I am not a threat to them. I have never experienced the weird vibes in other places (south or north) that originated as a completely segregated society like I get here.
I moved here to Austin from the NE a year ago for the opportunities that abound for children, the pretty hill country topography, the fact that competition was not as high for tech gigs as it is in the NE, the medium cost of living and what I envisioned as a progressive society accepting of all people..not just black folk. The joke is on me.
The fact is that Austin is progressive or liberal in the ARTS and that the artistic and "progressive" liberals that populate and do the amazing public relations and marketing for this town only envision themselves as liberal and progressive because they have tattoos, beards, creative insight and hi-end degrees.
Most people here in Austin do not like talking about race. It makes them uncomfortable and makes them rigid to the concept that there are a lot of black people that are creative, intelligent and just like them with the exception of the color of their skin.
I go to kids parties and a lot of those "progressive" people who work at similar hi-tech companies and have the same degrees that I have continue to be stand offish; stare at me and my family as we walk through the door; and leave us in a corner like we have a disease.
The more we try the more stand offish they get. The more I try, the more I wonder why I am I doing this? Why did I move my family here?
Co-workers and most people I meet at functions are very cautious when they meet me and grill me about my background, education, degrees etc. I have to work extra hard to fit in which has lead me to not care if I fit in and simply let my work speak for itself. But is that a way to live your life?
My Mexican neighbors wont even say HELLO to me and the vast majority of the people on the nearby greenbelt look at me, my daughter and the dogs on a morning run in full amazement (but wont say hello or good morning or even a nod. They just stare).
My wife thinks we have to move into the downtown area to feel more comfortable, but honestly I don't think it matters.
The fact is that I will have to live that "second guessed, must over achieve and show and prove" existence if I want to fit in here and that might not even work. I have to show them that I am "safe." People here just seem to be scared of a dark skinned black man. Its truly sad and annoying at the same time.
While you do run into some generally even keeled and nice people here in Austin, the fact is that is VERY segregated. I am so tired of being stared at when in a nice car in the prominently white areas of Westlake and Beecave (and the car is not that nice to begin with); tired of the first question out of a neighbors mouth.."so what do you do for a living?"; tired of the innocent yet equally as stupid questions like" did you dye your daughters hair blond" in reference to a 18 month old who is light skinned although my wife and I are obviously African American and sometimes wonder why I left the NE where I occasionally had the same stupid questions or occasional stares but NEVER HAD TO WORK SOO HARD to make friends and fit in. I miss the ease and relaxed nature of my friendships back home and may just have to move to Houston or NC.
And why don't black people talk to each other here? I am not talking about best buddies..but hello or a nod in the supermarket.. I mean really whass (yes whass not what) up with that?
I am sure this will elicit some creative responses from some folks and for those who remark adversely I ask.."why are you looking at threads about black professionals in Austin?"
The truth is that all of the above adds up to little more than a rant and the fact is I will have to evetually move.
OMG! I have had almost the EXACT same experience as you while in Austin Texas as a young, black, female professional. When I first moved to Austin, things were BAD! I couldn't find a job despite the fact I held a BA in Business, so I started my own Internet business which has done well. Because of that, I have been able to afford nice cars and apartments in a rather short period of time. I get the SAME questions as you! "What do you do for a living?" I even had one hispanic try to ask me how much I paid a month in rent for my apartment!! (a COMPLETE stranger I never talked to before in my life). Even having simple small things like a LAPTOP peaks interests from Austinites.
When I drive downtown in my "nice" car, I get a ton of stares. What is even more sadder is that the vast population of hispanics in austin texas tend to be even more predjudice and racist than the white population. If hispanics knew their own history, they would know that a large quantity of hispanics (especially the Mexicans and Dominicans) are part BLACK themselves. That is why I always stress that education is power, however, education can't replace common sense, which a lot of austin locals seem to be lacking in.
I also notice that blacks who become TOO successful in Austin (or any other part of texas) are often targeted. I have heard WAY too many stories from black professional socialites of mine who claim their business was ruined or sabotaged. (i.e., they didn't have a permit to sell a particular item, they "didn't" pay their taxes, despite the fact that they actually did, they were sued for one reason or another...etc)
One time, I requested a check to be sent by mail from my online merchant provider. I had to send some money to a family member of mine and needed to cash the check right away. The bank was closed, so I opted to go to the HEB (i didn't have any other choice). When I showed them the check, the clerk stared at it for like 10 minutes in awe. He kept gazing at me and asked, "Do you get paid this every week or every two weeks?" Ummmmm, what business of that is yours? Just cash the check and call it a day. They can't understand how a black person can make so much money.
Here's another example; I was looking for an apartment in Austin and opted to use an apartment locator (which I will never do again!), I ran across an older white male who seemed to be very sweet and nice. He helped me find apartments and took me to see a few. The first thing I noticed was that he was trying to get me to move to the East or Northeast side, which has a high percentage of blacks and lower income hispanics. I don't see a problem with this side of town and heard it was more laid back, but i told the apt locator MULTIPLE times that I wanted to live in Southwest region and was NOT open to living anywhere else. One time when I called this apt locator to ask him a question, I asked him if he remembered me from our last apt-showing drive....he said, "oh yes, I remember you.....the BLACK girl!"
UGGGGGGGGGGGGH! (*shuddering*) out of ALL the things you can remember a person by, he choses the race of that person!!???
I dropped that apt locator for another one, but soon found that ALL of these apt locators operated the same way. As soon as they found out I was black, they would try to instantly show me apartments in the East or Northeast side of austin. LIke I said, Austin is EXTREMELY segregated. I just found my own apartment in the area I wanted.
Texas in general is about 40 years behind the rest of the world in terms of race and other issues. Even the most racist person on the planet knows that it IS possible for a black person to become successful and make a "heap" of money. The people in Texas seemed doubt-founded and a lot of that has to do with many of the locals stay in their protected bubble and don't travel...and even if they do travel, they tend to make sure to never intermingle with other races and cultures
If I were you, I would think about moving to SC or the suburbs of Atlanta. I also heard that certain parts of Maryland and the suburbs of Chicago is very nice. I wouldn't waste another minute in lame, out-dated, overly conserative, fake liberated, Texas any longer if I were here; hence my recent move to Atlanta.
Also, moving to the downtown area of Austin won't get any better. It will actually get WORST. UGH! RUN....run the other way to another state.
When I drive downtown in my "nice" car, I get a ton of stares.
Maybe if your car is all that nice then it's the car they're staring at. I am downtown daily and I see lots of nice cars and I do stare, usually at the cars (though the occasional cute driver will attract my attention as well).
Quote:
Originally Posted by sajae90
When I showed them the check, the clerk stared at it for like 10 minutes in awe. He kept gazing at me and asked, "Do you get paid this every week or every two weeks?" Ummmmm, what business of that is yours? Just cash the check and call it a day. They can't understand how a black person can make so much money.
A clerk at an HEB is in awe at the size of your check and you automatically attribute it you your race? How about the fact that most people who make a decent sized paycheck rarely ever cashes checks at HEB? If I had one of my white friends take my paycheck down to an HEB to cash, they'd be just as likely to get some funny looks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sajae90
The first thing I noticed was that he was trying to get me to move to the East or Northeast side, which has a high percentage of blacks and lower income hispanics.
I used an apt locator when I first moved to Austin, they initially steered me to South Austin (around Ben White/360, at the time there were several newer complexes). When I realized just how much apt my money could get me relative to Cali, we started focusing on apts NW (which is where I eventually moved). Very true that things could be a lot different now though since it's been a while since I used an apt locator (did it once more after that initial time).
A bit off topic, but anyone remember the "In Living Color" skits where the black reporter goes undercover as a white person? Very funny stuff and very clever if you get beyond the superficial message.
You seem to try very hard to go tic-for-tac for everyone's experience on here (forum) that claim they have encountered any form of racism in Texas...that is quite interesting to say the least! lol About the apt locator...its funny you didn't quote what the apartment locator addressed me as...."black girl"......lol and the fact STILL remains that the apt locator steered me in a direction i have repeatedly said I DID NOT want to go which has an increased level of crime and a high population of blacks. Racist people do this all the time..... it called "grouping", where the racist/predjudice person sees a race of people as the same, so they group them together. A study was done on a live broadcast about this where waitresses were unconsiously sitting black customers together and whites together.
My opinion STILL STANDS. Austin is NOT for professional blacks....period! Dallas and Houston are WAY better options.....
You seem to try very hard to go tic-for-tac for everyone's experience on here (forum) that claim they have encountered any form of racism in Texas...that is quite interesting to say the least! lol About the apt locator...its funny you didn't quote what the apartment locator addressed me as...."black girl"......lol and the fact STILL remains that the apt locator steered me in a direction i have repeatedly said I DID NOT want to go which has an increased level of crime and a high population of blacks. Racist people do this all the time..... it called "grouping", where the racist/predjudice person sees a race of people as the same, so they group them together. A study was done on a live broadcast about this where waitresses were unconsiously sitting black customers together and whites together.
My opinion STILL STANDS. Austin is NOT for professional blacks....period! Dallas and Houston are WAY better options.....
I only relayed my experience vs yours and I even said that things could definitely be different now overall (vs just our two samples).
The point in me drawing out these specific examples is to show how perception can shape reality and the more points one uses, the more that perception becomes reality.
So overall I disagree with your opinion, Austin _can_ be just fine for black professionals. Will every black professional have a positive experience here, definitely not. But will every black professional have a negative experience here, also definitely not. Dallas and Houston may be just fine for some and any black "professional" thinking of moving to Texas should definitely look at all the options based on their own criteria, I simply don't believe you had dismiss Austin out of hand.
everybody is going to tell you what they want to believe austin is like, or how they want to view our great city.
but in all honesty- id say not really, their are way way more hippies/hipsters most are whites, and than the city also caters to hispanics far more
so basically every city will have a niche of wealthy, and than the rest of the people.
Austin is really tight city, but i dont see a strong black professional field- nor do i see many black people. i mostly see whites on the westside, and hispanics mixed around elsewere, and than indians and chinese people on the westside.
The fact that someone asks what one does for a living or asks about your education is not the problem although its boring..many people ask this as a way to break the ice and this does happen all over the country. Still I have noticed that many people here ask the question of occupation and/or education to qualify your acceptance into their circle. As a black person here in Austin, questions like this have followed a tepid approach or weird look after other people were accepted in a much warmer fashion (and without the same questions). The fact is that it should not matter if I am a garbage man, a receptionist or the CEO of a major company. It should not matter if I did not graduate high school or have a doctorate. For many black people, fitting into a mostly white society is the norm. It has little to do with ones attitude, or security in education (as suggested in other places on this thread) as most black people have to be charismatic, diplomatic and generally the best or the "exception" in everything they do and how they speak with others to insure success. It just gets old sometimes and until people are able to openly speak about race (like we are doing here in this forum) it wont change. Try starting out with sports, or kids (like do you have any?) or generally greeting them like you would a friend. Get to jobs and education later. Its kind of like the old money rule of not speaking about your wealth..its just not necessary.
im not black
but i am not going to deny that, these things might happen. everything you have said on all pages of this post, i can sort of think back, and see how some people are around blacks.
but as far as asking what you do for a living
that is a very common question. when i have gone to go play golf, with my uncle or my dad and meet their freinds, the first questions i get asked are, what am i planning on doing with my life, how are my grades, what are my other ambitions. and will if follow in my fathers footsteps? its almost as if, they want to judge my dad's son, which is me. to see if i am a dumbA##. and while my grammar sucks balls, and the folks on this form, have told me over and over again. i assure you i am know stupid.
i am white btw
oh im 19- and i see, sort of what you mean. a few times at mainly white parties. btw i am not trying, to be 1 of those liberal whites who tries to deny that their are social differences or, without realizing it things can be different 99% of the time. but i notice that their is a sort of divison between folk. 1 thing i have noticed is that, if you are not like some people, you will never be apart of their group. if you are of a different race, that can be a reason a lot of times to. its not even that they are trying to be racist, its not that they are racist. ITS Just how things are.
i am not going to pretend that you have not experienced these things. because i am sure you have
but i am not going to deny that, these things might happen. everything you have said on all pages of this post, i can sort of think back, and see how some people are around blacks.
but as far as asking what you do for a living
that is a very common question. when i have gone to go play golf, with my uncle or my dad and meet their freinds, the first questions i get asked are, what am i planning on doing with my life, how are my grades, what are my other ambitions. and will if follow in my fathers footsteps? its almost as if, they want to judge my dad's son, which is me. to see if i am a dumbA##. and while my grammar sucks balls, and the folks on this form, have told me over and over again. i assure you i am know stupid.
i am white btw
oh im 19- and i see, sort of what you mean. a few times at mainly white parties. btw i am not trying, to be 1 of those liberal whites who tries to deny that their are social differences or, without realizing it things can be different 99% of the time. but i notice that their is a sort of divison between folk. 1 thing i have noticed is that, if you are not like some people, you will never be apart of their group. if you are of a different race, that can be a reason a lot of times to. its not even that they are trying to be racist, its not that they are racist. ITS Just how things are.
i am not going to pretend that you have not experienced these things. because i am sure you have
I appreciate your comment and your shared experiences. At least you acknowledge that things can be different for minorities and their experiences are indeed REAL, unlike a couple of people on this forum. You seem to be self aware...and though you don't claim to be a liberal.....I think that at heart...you are REAL liberal...cause anyone who is not a minority but can ADMIT that minorities may have a harder time fitting in....then to me that's a liberal, which is a good thing.
The only difference between your dad's friends and golf buddies asking you questions about your life and what happened in my experience is that you were connected with those people through your father. They were associates and friends of a family member of yours. Those who ask me random questions about how much I make and how much I pay in rent are TOTAL STRANGERS! lol people I have never met or talked to in my life and are not associated with. These are NOT questions that you ask a random person you see on the street.....hell, not even someone you personally know.....but I do see what you are saying as well.
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Austinnerd
