Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Texas > Austin
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 03-08-2010, 10:34 AM
 
Location: Austin, TX!!!!
3,757 posts, read 9,038,496 times
Reputation: 1762

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasHorseLady View Post
Whether or not children need 10 hours of sleep was not the point. Whether or not children can adapt to the environmental noises around them was the point, and children who live in cities do it all the time and still manage to sleep just fine.
Really? 'Cause minimom was responding to my post about kids needing 10 hours and you were quoting her. So initially it WAS the point.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 03-08-2010, 11:49 AM
 
8,231 posts, read 17,276,670 times
Reputation: 3696
I agree that kids- and adults- these days are operating under a TERRIBLE sleep deficit. I think this is the cause for a lot of ADD, behavior problems, obesity, car accidents, etc.

I DONT think that you need a bucolic enviroment to get your 10 hours. In fact, MOST people around the world (including kids!) live in very noisy conditions...and they ADAPT. IF the NB is obeying the noise ordinances (and it seems like they are), the neighbors need to let their kids ADAPT to falling asleep with some noise out their window. Kids are NOT fragile porcelain creatures to be kept protected from EVERYTHING all the time!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-08-2010, 12:17 PM
 
Location: Austin, TX
680 posts, read 1,380,399 times
Reputation: 508
I'm late to this thread but just wanted to add my support for Nutty Brown and my lack of empathy for people who choose to live near live music and then try to stop the music in spite of the fact that the music was there first.

This happened with the Shady Grove's wonderful outdoor music series, and it's been an ongoing fight throughout the downtown music districts.

There are new condos directly across the street from a pair of VERY LOUD outdoor music venues on Red River and it's only a matter of time before the yuppies manage to ram their personal desires down the throats of the club owners who had first rights to the location.

Developers know when they're building in an area that will be impacted by existing music venues. They should take responsibility for the conflicts they create and give up a bit in profit margins in order to sell affected houses and condos for a lower price with a signed agreement by buyers acknowledging that they're purchasing a home that WILL be affected by music.

This is supposed to be the Live Music Capital of The World, not the Whiny Neighborhood Association of Newcomers Capital of The World.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-08-2010, 12:17 PM
 
Location: Austin, TX!!!!
3,757 posts, read 9,038,496 times
Reputation: 1762
Quote:
Originally Posted by mimimomx3 View Post
I agree that kids- and adults- these days are operating under a TERRIBLE sleep deficit. I think this is the cause for a lot of ADD, behavior problems, obesity, car accidents, etc.

I DONT think that you need a bucolic enviroment to get your 10 hours. In fact, MOST people around the world (including kids!) live in very noisy conditions...and they ADAPT. IF the NB is obeying the noise ordinances (and it seems like they are), the neighbors need to let their kids ADAPT to falling asleep with some noise out their window. Kids are NOT fragile porcelain creatures to be kept protected from EVERYTHING all the time!
That I agree with, however, it may be the vibrations that are keeping the kids up and I cannot comment on whether it's possible for children to sleep under such conditions because I don't know the science behind it.

I grew up living above the I-5 in Los Angeles and the din of the highway was ongoing so I was able to tune it out and sleep. However it might be that if the noise isn't constant, then perhaps we cannot adapt. But again, I don't know the science behind so I cannot comment meaningfully.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-08-2010, 12:39 PM
 
10,130 posts, read 19,822,550 times
Reputation: 5815
Quote:
Originally Posted by tongpa-nyi View Post
This happened with the Shady Grove's wonderful outdoor music series, and it's been an ongoing fight throughout the downtown music districts.

There are new condos directly across the street from a pair of VERY LOUD outdoor music venues on Red River and it's only a matter of time before the yuppies manage to ram their personal desires down the throats of the club owners who had first rights to the location.
Just so you know, the whole blaming "newcomers moving into downtown condos" is a red herring. The people behind shutting down the music at Shady Grove and Freddy's are long-time austin residents... members of the ANC who are basically anti-growth. They encourage the misconception that it's the transplants coming in and wanting to change the character of the city, when in reality it's their NIMBY attitudes behind the whole thing.

You should check out the following blog. By all means, read the ANC minutes linked from the site as well.
M1EK's Bake-Sale of Bile: Jeff Jack and the Austin Neighborhoods Council kill "Unplugged at the Grove"

My take is that the people moving into downtown condos generally have a good idea of what they are getting into. They aren't expecting peace and quiet like a suburb. They know that moving downtown means dealing with noise, even well into the night. But they make an easy target.

I understand it's not the same situation as Nutty Brown. But I hate to see people blaming what happened at Shady Grove on newcomers from CA or whatever.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-08-2010, 12:52 PM
 
Location: Austin, TX
680 posts, read 1,380,399 times
Reputation: 508
Quote:
Originally Posted by atxcio View Post
Just so you know, the whole blaming "newcomers moving into downtown condos" is a red herring. The people behind shutting down the music at Shady Grove and Freddy's are long-time austin residents... members of the ANC who are basically anti-growth. They encourage the misconception that it's the transplants coming in and wanting to change the character of the city, when in reality it's their NIMBY attitudes behind the whole thing.
And again you successfully moderate my views. I should submit my comments to you before I post them, as I tend to bloviate before I think things through and get the facts straight. TexasHorseLady has had to correct me occasionally too.

I always appreciate your views on C-D because you take various perspectives into account rather than opining without substantiating your views.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-08-2010, 01:02 PM
 
10,130 posts, read 19,822,550 times
Reputation: 5815
Sorry if I was coming across as moderating your views, tongpa-nyi. I guess I didn't realize I did it before. I certainly don't mean to be rude, we've got enough of that on this forum, so sorry if I came across as such.

I think I need to practice a little self-moderation...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-09-2010, 12:57 AM
 
Location: Dripping Springs , TX
786 posts, read 2,755,516 times
Reputation: 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by tongpa-nyi View Post
I'm late to this thread but just wanted to add my support for Nutty Brown and my lack of empathy for people who choose to live near live music and then try to stop the music in spite of the fact that the music was there first.

This happened with the Shady Grove's wonderful outdoor music series, and it's been an ongoing fight throughout the downtown music districts.

There are new condos directly across the street from a pair of VERY LOUD outdoor music venues on Red River and it's only a matter of time before the yuppies manage to ram their personal desires down the throats of the club owners who had first rights to the location.

Developers know when they're building in an area that will be impacted by existing music venues. They should take responsibility for the conflicts they create and give up a bit in profit margins in order to sell affected houses and condos for a lower price with a signed agreement by buyers acknowledging that they're purchasing a home that WILL be affected by music.

This is supposed to be the Live Music Capital of The World, not the Whiny Neighborhood Association of Newcomers Capital of The World.
Your response is perfectly understandable and identical to mine when this issue first came up. However, if you do a lot of digging in newspaper comments sections and the like, you will find that a core of the complaints are coming from people outside of Belterra who have been here a long time before the Nutty Brown had outdoor music. So its not just newcomers making the noise.

I agree that you do not move into a place and then try to change it to what you want at the expense of others. However, my views on the Nutty Brown situation changed when I saw the comments from long time residents.

I am glad that there are sound checks being done in an attempt to solve the problem. We need to keep the Nutty Brown and its venue while allowing residents to enjoy their properties.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-09-2010, 06:06 AM
 
Location: Driftwood TX
389 posts, read 1,568,277 times
Reputation: 123
We have gone to Nutty Brown for 9 years and love it. We'd hate to see it go. Initially, we also thought this was just the insane growth and the neighbors complaining after they moved in, but upon digging further into the issue, it appears the "expansion" of the stage a few years back is what is at the heart of the issue.
That said, I still think that if Belterra was not there.. (it wasnt we started going to NB) the issue would not have come up. I also think the people complaining had better weigh up what they will put on that property if it closes..... maybe a nice Walgreens.....
Cheers
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-09-2010, 10:08 AM
 
Location: The Woo
246 posts, read 856,236 times
Reputation: 165
Concerning "boomers" vs fire trucks and traffic, there is indeed a very real difference in human response between different types of noise sources. Things like traffic and mechanical noise (air conditioners) are broadband noise sources, meaning they have significant energy content across a wide range of frequencies. It's much easier for a person to lose focus on this type of noise because it blends much easier into what our brains consider the background.

Parts of music are not broadband, but tonal. The single bass notes that travel long distances and easily penetrate building shells are quite tonal. Humans are very sensitive to tonal sounds. A tonal sound can seem much louder to a person than a broadband sound, even if the two sounds read similarly on a sound level meter. This is why some communities, like San Antonio, have penalties for tonality in their noise ordinances.

Quote:
That said, I still think that if Belterra was not there.. (it wasnt we started going to NB) the issue would not have come up.
After hearing from a number of people in the area on both sides of the issue, I disagree strongly with this. I don't recall hearing from anyone in Belterra who finds sound from the NBC objectionable (not saying they don't exist, just saying I haven't heard from them). Generally people in Belterra report being able to hear it without being bothered by it. Also, people in Belterra seem to be the most likely to provide encouraging words for the NBC.

I also agree that the conception that newcomers to the area are the most likely to complain about noise is false, especially when talking about down town condos. People move into those places because of the music, not in spite of it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Settings
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2020 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Texas > Austin
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:00 PM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top