austin is not diverse? (Houston, Dallas: 2010, dorms, elementary school)

[TexasHorseLady]

Originally Posted by VIBЄ

That's interesting, because I feel the direct opposite of what you are experiencing.

Well, this might have to do with the individual rather than the city, perhaps. It might have to do more with how important (or not) the individual considers their race to be as a defining characteristic than with the city itself. Sometimes the people around you respond to your expectations with what you expect, so two people who are both AA, say (or Texan, say, in some places in Europe), might have very differing experiences in the same location with the same people.

[Jennibc]

Originally Posted by VIBЄ

I think Nomadic is on point. I suggest you listen to what she is saying. I've been to all the major cities in Texas (including west Texas), and ethnic and cultural diversity does not appear to be one of Austin's strengths.

More about demographics:

Spoiler

When you look at the demographics, the Dallas and Houston metros (that includes both the city limits and the surrounding suburbs) generally seem to be evenly distributed into thirds: 1/3 white, 1/3 hispanic/latino and 1/3 black.

There are slightly fewer blacks to compensate for the number of Asians living in those areas. Most of the Hispanics living in Texas are primarily Chicano or of Mexican decent. Also, there is much more diversity and integration going on inside the city, which seems to be the direct opposite of what's happening in Austin.

When you compare those demographics to Austin's metro, as LAnative10 has pointed out, you will notice that Austin's metro tends to be 2/3 white and 1/3 'other'. 'Other' is split up amongst the different minority groups living there (which is predominately Hispanic).

Now that's not to say that Austin isn't diverse or that Austin is lacking in diversity. However, it's very apparent that the dynamics in Austin are significantly different than other cities in Texas.

I'm an AA and whenever I'm in Dallas or Houston, I always feel that it's no big deal 'being black' in those cities. Whereas whenever I'm in Austin, I always feel some sort of awkwardness in certain parts of the city (though, South Austin seems to be free of this).

I can get along with people fine in Austin. However, I always feel like I always had to adjust myself in order to feel comfortable out there. I always felt like I had to present myself with an image that is 'favorable to white people' in that city in oppose to just being myself. And this more along the lines of how I carry myself than it is appearance. Which is interesting, because in San Antonio, which is no where near as diverse as Austin, I don't need to do this. It's only in Austin.

To me, as a minority, Austin carries this 'adjust or leave' attitude, which feels a whole lot less welcoming than the 'I could care less about who you are and what you do' attitude of Houston or the 'You do your thing, and I'll do mine, but I'll still at least acknowledge your existence' attitude of Dallas. I know Austin is progressive, intellectual and liberal, but this is how I feel whenever I'm in the city.



That's interesting, because I feel the direct opposite of what you are experiencing.

What do you consider an image "favorable to white people." This is a serious question, I am not trying to be snarky. I ask because I think sometimes that people lump all people from an ethnic group together just as you are doing here, and it doesn't make much sense. Why can't you just be yourself around everyone? What is it about "white" Austinite's behavior here that makes you think you are not entitled to be yourself? What are the characteristics of your true self that you think "white" Austinites would not like?

[Nomadic9460678748]

I think it's key to remember that we're all going to have different experiences and how we experience or perceive the "diversity" in a region does often depend on what your expectations are. As a minority I don't think people have intentionally tried to make me feel out of place, it's just that I will have a look about when I'm somewhere and happen to notice, "Holy Smokes! I'm the only black person out here!" It doesn't matter much to me if I am or not, but I think it can say something about a place, especially when again and again you hear, "Aw man Austin is like a little blue enclave in a red sea . . . it's so forward-thinking and progressive here." Sure, when it comes to some things like civic engagement, death penalty marches, and saving salamanders (all of which are important in their own way!). But when there are questions about the levels of police brutality and their disproportionate impact on certain ethnicities and neighborhoods, that Austin progressivism is markedly silent. If you're to stand as a community and must be, to my way of thinking, you must speak to issues of concern in every part of your town. Those same people who fight to be heard at town hall meetings discussing the closures of Barton Springs or Deep Eddy are nowhere to be found when other certain types of questions come to the fore.

These topics get very difficult to address without realizing that just as I can't ever know what it's like to be white, white people can't know what it's like to be African American, Latina, or of mixed race! It's not a bad thing, it just is. And yes, it would be a fantastic world if were indeed post-racial and everyone just looked at me and say, there's another human woman . . . but that's not the case. I've actually had a JOB INTERVIEW where my white interviewer looked me dead in the face and told me she was "surprised at how articulate I was." This was here in Austin. My gut wrenched inside of me and I put on my best, fake smile and finished the interview. Needless to say I didn't want the job after that . . . I didn't take that moment and allow it to taint my perceptions of white people EVERYWHERE, but it was very, very disconcerting and something of a reality check.

Again, everyone's experience is certainly going to be different. We're different individuals with different frames of reference, political viewpoints, and expectations, but I think a very general level of engagement can be had from all citizens in all parts of the city when it really matters.


Is OP even still concerned with this question, I wonder? Have we beaten a dead horse? What say you OP?

[Nomadic9460678748]

Originally Posted by Jennibc

What do you consider an image "favorable to white people." This is a serious question, I am not trying to be snarky. I ask because I think sometimes that people lump all people from an ethnic group together just as you are doing here, and it doesn't make much sense. Why can't you just be yourself around everyone? What is it about "white" Austinite's behavior here that makes you think you are not entitled to be yourself? What are the characteristics of your true self that you think "white" Austinites would not like?

He can only answer for himself, but perhaps he's talking about the fact that most white people (not all, but let's say your average middle class, degreed, professional) are probably more comfortable around a black person a la Barack Obama (regardless of his politics . . . I'm referring to the Ivy League education, intelligent, oratorically brilliant, etc), versus hanging out with say, Lil Wayne, Kanye West, or JayZ (hip hop stars with important, real world things to tell the world, but whose commercial image doesn't quite seem to resonate with a lot of middle class whites . . . though plenty of younger whites love, love, love these guys).

I had a random conversation with a man (he was white and it was here in Austin, again) during the course of the conversation somehow we were talking about friends and he proceeded to say, "My friend X, he's so LOUD...you know how black people are." And then look at me as if I'm supposed to nod and go, "Oh yeah, totally." I don't look as "black" as some black people, but I'm black and I certainly don't think all black people are loud. I had a coworker who once told me if I could "smell *******s" (derogatory term for Mexican immigrants) the way he could because he noticed they all "smelled." Apparently he'd forgotten that my grandmother was FROM MEXICO . . . and thought I'd josh right along with him. This was in Pflugerville. He was from Thorndale. I don't discriminate against all people from Thorndale because he made some dumb statement, but someone of less poise and maturity might have been inclined too. And at this same job in Pflugerville an African American man came into our place of employment to pick up a package. He was dressed normally that I could tell. Boots, black jeans, a nice top that was a little shiny, but nothing I hadn't ever seen before. After he walked out my coworker (who was white, all of these people are white) looked at me and said, "Now that's what I think of when I think of what a pimp looks like." I was speechless. And then recently I had a coworker try and convince me that because slavery was economic slaves were just like stocks and bonds . . . and he's YOUNGER than me. I'm not saying he's an ardent racist, but there's got to be a point where you stop and ask yourself, "Wait, should I be saying these things?" At work! Should you be saying such things at work!?!?

[Jennibc]

Originally Posted by Nomadic9460678748

He can only answer for himself, but perhaps he's talking about the fact that most white people (not all, but let's say your average middle class, degreed, professional) are probably more comfortable around a black person a la Barack Obama (regardless of his politics . . . I'm referring to the Ivy League education, intelligent, oratorically brilliant, etc), versus hanging out with say, Lil Wayne, Kanye West, or JayZ (hip hop stars with important, real world things to tell the world, but whose commercial image doesn't quite seem to resonate with a lot of middle class whites . . . though plenty of younger whites love, love, love these guys).

I had a random conversation with a man (he was white and it was here in Austin, again) during the course of the conversation somehow we were talking about friends and he proceeded to say, "My friend X, he's so LOUD...you know how black people are." And then look at me as if I'm supposed to nod and go, "Oh yeah, totally." I don't look as "black" as some black people, but I'm black and I certainly don't think all black people are loud. I had a coworker who once told me if I could "smell *******s" (derogatory term for Mexican immigrants) the way he could because he noticed they all "smelled." Apparently he'd forgotten that my grandmother was FROM MEXICO . . . and thought I'd josh right along with him. This was in Pflugerville. He was from Thorndale. I don't discriminate against all people from Thorndale because he made some dumb statement, but someone of less poise and maturity might have been inclined too. And at this same job in Pflugerville an African American man came into our place of employment to pick up a package. He was dressed normally that I could tell. Boots, black jeans, a nice top that was a little shiny, but nothing I hadn't ever seen before. After he walked out my coworker (who was white, all of these people are white) looked at me and said, "Now that's what I think of when I think of what a pimp looks like." I was speechless. And then recently I had a coworker try and convince me that because slavery was economic slaves were just like stocks and bonds . . . and he's YOUNGER than me. I'm not saying he's an ardent racist, but there's got to be a point where you stop and ask yourself, "Wait, should I be saying these things?" At work! Should you be saying such things at work!?!?

Guess what, the type of people you describe are probably more comfortable around any person of any color that is middle class, educated and intelligent. It has to do with being comfortable around people like you but that doesn't necessarily have to do with color. At the risk of sounding arrogant here, I prefer to spend my time with people who read a lot, that are fiercely independent and are very very smart. I don't care what color they are or what country they are from but that's what it takes to hold my interest.

The people you are writing about (the ones making the asinine comments) sound like morons. I don't think it's fair to lump them together with all white people in Austin just like I don't think it's fair to lump all blacks together with the likes of Kanye West (who in my opinion, seems like an absolute moron).

[Nomadic9460678748]

Originally Posted by Nomadic9460678748

He can only answer for himself, but perhaps he's talking about the fact that most white people (not all, but let's say your average middle class, degreed, professional) are probably more comfortable around a black person a la Barack Obama (regardless of his politics . . . I'm referring to the Ivy League education, intelligent, oratorically brilliant, etc), versus hanging out with say, Lil Wayne, Kanye West, or JayZ (hip hop stars with important, real world things to tell the world, but whose commercial image doesn't quite seem to resonate with a lot of middle class whites . . . though plenty of younger whites love, love, love these guys).

I had a random conversation with a man (he was white and it was here in Austin, again) during the course of the conversation somehow we were talking about friends and he proceeded to say, "My friend X, he's so LOUD...you know how black people are." And then look at me as if I'm supposed to nod and go, "Oh yeah, totally." I don't look as "black" as some black people, but I'm black and I certainly don't think all black people are loud. I had a coworker who once told me if I could "smell *******s" (derogatory term for Mexican immigrants) the way he could because he noticed they all "smelled." Apparently he'd forgotten that my grandmother was FROM MEXICO . . . and thought I'd josh right along with him. This was in Pflugerville. He was from Thorndale. I don't discriminate against all people from Thorndale because he made some dumb statement, but someone of less poise and maturity might have been inclined too. And at this same job in Pflugerville an African American man came into our place of employment to pick up a package. He was dressed normally that I could tell. Boots, black jeans, a nice top that was a little shiny, but nothing I hadn't ever seen before. After he walked out my coworker (who was white, all of these people are white) looked at me and said, "Now that's what I think of when I think of what a pimp looks like." I was speechless. And then recently I had a coworker try and convince me that because slavery was economic slaves were just like stocks and bonds . . . and he's YOUNGER than me. I'm not saying he's an ardent racist, but there's got to be a point where you stop and ask yourself, "Wait, should I be saying these things?" At work! Should you be saying such things at work!?!?

Jennibc: Perhaps you didn't see the above-referenced portion of my post? You're saying it's not fair to lump all white people together . . . I don't. As I mentioned, because I am possessive of a degree of poise and maturity which precludes such behavior. However, there are many who do lump all white people together. And they, not I, are the people you should direct your comment to. I was trying to point out the fact that I have had many unfortunate experiences . . . and they have happened to come at the hands of white people. But I don't use that as an excuse to be militant and demand some type of reparable action. When, and if, I meet such people I often ask myself, "Should I say something to this cat? Like, well, you're generalizing a bit aren't you?" But when is it my place to offer "englightenment" about such things? These were all ADULTS . . . not children. I keep on keepin' on. And you're right Kanye West is a jerk. Unfortunately, he's laughing all the way to the bank.

And your thing about preferring certain types of company (readers, etc), doesn't sound arrogant, a little elitist perhaps, not exactly arrogant. I know lots of people who never pick up books, didn't go to college, and are not nearly as refined as some might have them be . . . but I love people of all bents and don't prevent myself from getting to know them because they haven't read the latest Oprah book or aren't versed in Satre and existentialism. It's a big beautiful world out there, with lots to see and plenty of folks to know . . . that means that I, because it's what I like, DON'T hang out with people who are just like me. That would stink and would bore the heck out of me.

Also . . . that's a much bigger issue . . . if people only hang out with people who are like them . . . how are you ever going to know more about what's going on in the world? Stay in your bubble and you miss out on so much. So, sure you can hang out with people who are "like you" and feel safe all of the time, and often times such people (educated, middle-class, professional) are proportionately of certain races . . . and not others. And that's sort of bringing us back around to the entire point about Austin. That's what people do here in Austin, but not only here, they stick to what and who they know because it's safe, comfortable, and they like "their kind." Sorry, that's just not my way. It's fine that it's your way and it works for you. You have to do what works for you.

[Jennibc]

Originally Posted by Nomadic9460678748

Jennibc: Perhaps you didn't see the above-referenced portion of my post? You're saying it's not fair to lump all white people together . . . I don't. As I mentioned, because I am possessive of a degree of poise and maturity which precludes such behavior. However, there are many who do lump all white people together. And they, not I, are the people you should direct your comment to. I was trying to point out the fact that I have had many unfortunate experiences . . . and they have happened to come at the hands of white people. But I don't use that as an excuse to be militant and demand some type of reparable action. When, and if, I meet such people I often ask myself, "Should I say something to this cat? Like, well, you're generalizing a bit aren't you?" But when is it my place to offer "englightenment" about such things? These were all ADULTS . . . not children. I keep on keepin' on. And you're right Kanye West is a jerk. Unfortunately, he's laughing all the way to the bank.

And your thing about preferring certain types of company (readers, etc), doesn't sound arrogant, a little elitist perhaps, not exactly arrogant. I know lots of people who never pick up books, didn't go to college, and are not nearly as refined as some might have them be . . . but I love people of all bents and don't prevent myself from getting to know them because they haven't read the latest Oprah book or aren't versed in Satre and existentialism. It's a big beautiful world out there, with lots to see and plenty of folks to know . . . that means that I, because it's what I like, DON'T hang out with people who are just like me. That would stink and would bore the heck out of me.

Also . . . that's a much bigger issue . . . if people only hang out with people who are like them . . . how are you ever going to know more about what's going on in the world? Stay in your bubble and you miss out on so much. So, sure you can hang out with people who are "like you" and feel safe all of the time, and often times such people (educated, middle-class, professional) are proportionately of certain races . . . and not others. And that's sort of bringing us back around to the entire point about Austin. That's what people do here in Austin, but not only here, they stick to what and who they know because it's safe, comfortable, and they like "their kind." Sorry, that's just not my way. It's fine that it's your way and it works for you. You have to do what works for you.

go back and reread my post. I said I prefer to hang out with very smart people that read (BTW, I don't watch Oprah so I don't care what she says to read), I didn't say that I ONLY hung out with people that read. I only mean that we all feel more comfortable with people with whom we have things in common. I suppose for some, ethnicity is factored in, which is really a shame because I think there are many differences within ethnic groups. Those middle class professionals likely aren't hanging out in trailer parks that are comprised of mostly lower socioeconomic whites. FWIW, my best girlfriend in Austin is black and she likes to read, is very smart, and is an independent thinker. I feel much more comfortable with her than I do with many other people who I've met here who happen to be white. Maybe comfortable is the wrong word to use. Maybe "have more fun" is a better descriptive. I am north of forty, so I have had my share of experiences with all different types of people and I have more fun with people that like to read, are very smart, and are independent thinkers. I will leave it at that.

[Nomadic9460678748]

As someone who has read an Oprah book or two (The Reader and Anna Karenina and a Wally Lamb book) I say that's too bad that you haven't looked at her list! I don't watch her show, but I'm a lover of delicious language and read for the joy of textual experience . . . even Oprah books provide some satisfaction in that regard.

As someone who's lived in a trailer park, lived in Section 8 housing, was nourished through elementary school on free lunch tickets, but who also subscribes to The New York Review of Books, The New Yorker, and Harper's, I say . . . sometimes there are some diamonds in the rough and the only way they'll be excavated is if people are willing to venture into uncomfortable terrain. I'm no middle class professional, but I'll put my mind down alongside theirs any day of the week.

I just have fun with people! Had a great conversation with a homeless man in front of Little City the other day . . . in San Francisco I chatted up an old Chinese Lady . . . in the San Diego airport I met this fun lady from Oregon who needed a chat after saying goodbye to her son-in-law (he'd just been redeployed to Afghanistan) . . . I'm just out to chat them up! Of course, if you ask my mother, she'll tell you I've been that way since I was a little girl. It's just my nature and I think I've been blessed and served well because of it.

Big beautiful world! I'll leave my post at that!

Cheers Jenni!

[VIBЄ]

Thank you for defending me, Nomadic. I guess I need to elaborate more.

Originally Posted by Jennibc

What do you consider an image "favorable to white people." This is a serious question, I am not trying to be snarky.

Originally Posted by Jennibc

It has to do with being comfortable around people like you but that doesn't necessarily have to do with color. At the risk of sounding arrogant here, I prefer to spend my time with people who read a lot, that are fiercely independent and are very very smart. I don't care what color they are or what country they are from but that's what it takes to hold my interest.

I believe you answered your own question. I know that those views aren't exclusive to white people, hence the reason why I carefully placed quotes around it. However, it does feel that the city of Austin collectively possesses a certain standard for its citizens. And it becomes even more apparent when the citizen happens to be part of a minority group. If the said citizen does not appear to match any or all of those qualifications listed, then that person will more or less have difficulty fitting in with the populous. While it may not be limited to race, it still manages to magnify when the person does happen to not be a part of the majority.

For example, you could be the most intelligent, well educated, articulate person on the planet, but if you don't drive the 'right' car (say the only car you are able to afford isn't the best looking) and happen to be a person of color, then you are going to fall into more scrutiny a lot faster than a person in the same situation who happens to be white.

The reason why I brought up Dallas and Houston in the post before is because I've actually found it a lot easier to talk to white people and make white friends in those cities. In fact, I have made a lot more white friends there than I ever have in Austin. I can get along with people in Austin, but I always feel like I have to act differently in order to be accepted. Be it to acting more like Bryant Gumble or acting more like Lil John. More often than not, I always have to act in away that I'm perceived in order to fit in. To me, it seems to be pretty cliquish there. At least that's been my personal experience. And I know I'm not alone. I remember talking to many AA men and women who have found it difficult to make friends or date interacially in that city.

It made me come to the conclusion that because there are so many more different kinds of people with so many different types of economic backgrounds living in Dallas and Houston that some racial barriers were actually torn down. And because such a balance does not exist in Austin, people still seem to be on guard for whatever reason there, which only makes me feel uncomfortable and awkward in that city.

And it does go both ways. I'm pretty sure that there are Caucasians and other groups of people who may or may not feel comfortable living in a city like Atlanta, which rocks an urban culture that isn't too inviting to those who are not African American or share a similar background. Or people having difficulties fitting in to a city that have a predominate Hispanic population, or a city that is heavily geared towards Asians.

I think in order to obtain true ethnic diversity within a city, there has to be a more even number of more than at least two different ethnic groups in the population. The reason why I say two is because I've also lived out east, where some cities are split between blacks and whites, and race relations there can get pretty sketchy.

Anyway, if Austin truly was diverse and allowed other groups to be represented, then why do these discussions continue to surface? I know that no city is perfect, but I have to agree that Austin has its fair share of rough spots when it comes to real diversity.

[TexasHorseLady]

Okay, question is, does diversity have to do with absolute statistical numbers of people of various races in a city, or does it have to do with whether people's color is irrelevant no matter what the mix and they will be judged on their individual nature (and not allowed to play the race card, or the gender card, for that matter, as an excuse for people not liking them when it may be the way they behave that would put people off no matter what, for example)?

As for the Dallas/Houston/Austin difference, those cities are all very different, really, in the kinds of people who feel comfortable in them, period, setting race (which is not the only diversity in existence, it seems to me) aside entirely. I find it more comfortable to talk to people of any color in Austin than I do to manyy people of any color in Dallas, in certain demographics, simply because we don't have a lot in common, our interests aren't the same. That doesn't mean that I'm judging them on color, but simply that I don't care all that much about shopping and who has the nicest car and that kind of thing and I think the Domain is a Big Big Mistake (yes, I used to live in Dallas and still have relatives there), and they're not interested in the things that I am, so we don't have a lot to connect.

I think when we'll have TRUE diversity and TRUE equality is when no one, on either side, uses race as an excuse not to like someone else OR uses it as an excuse for not being liked. When they look FIRST at the individual things common to all humans that might explain their experiences (hmmm, did I say something that put that person off rather than that person doesn't like me because I'm purple).

But that's just me. Do I think we're there? Nope, not by a long shot. Do I think that every single time that someone uses race to explain something about another person or about how they are perceived by others rather than digging deeper it delays us getting there? Yes, I do.