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Old 02-18-2010, 02:47 PM
 
Location: austin
164 posts, read 184,648 times
Reputation: 122

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Quote:
Originally Posted by LibertysFate View Post
I don't know if he was planning to take other people's life, but I guess when you fly into a government building it's to be expected.
Like he said in his letter, he's not the first or last to take his own life. We just don't hear about it as much as we should, so I'm guessing he thought this would be a way to bring attention to what is going on. I don't agree with his method but I see how he thought he had no other choice when he's tried writing and talking to our government officials already.

Just because I agree with a lot of what he said, doesn't mean I condone killing innocent people.

I'm pretty sure he's been on the other end looking at others saying the same thing, "I would never take my own life." How do you really know you wouldn't until you've been pushed so far you can't be pushed any more?
great post. people have attempted throughout history to bring light to injustice, only to eventually be swayed towards drastic measures to enlist the readership of the masses. it is unfortunate beyond understanding.

 
Old 02-18-2010, 02:50 PM
 
Location: Austin, TX
8,732 posts, read 17,948,761 times
Reputation: 3546
Hmm...it looks like from his post that he got in trouble with the IRS three times. The first looks like (reading between the lines) he was intentionally 'interpreting' the law in his favor, possibly even with existing precedent to the contrary. Not a whole lot of sympathy here, sorry for the IRS busting you for not paying your taxes.

Second time it isn't completely clear, but it looks like they (the IRS) changed the code in such a way as to make him owe taxes for previous years. This could be a valid point, I don't know enough about tax law, but I suspect that there was a way in which 99% (or whatever) of the people filed their taxes and then there was the way this guy did. The 'change' in code might have been nothing more than a codification of what published policy/guidance said you should do, so he might not have been so blindsided as he indicates. This happens all the time in regulation - policy is established to clarify a regulation that can be interpreted in different ways, and then eventually becomes part of law.

Last lacks much detail, but the accountant that did his taxes either a) messed up or b) was not given enough information to do it correctly. I don't know how complicated his taxes are, but I have yet to miss something that big

I could be completely wrong, obviously, I am just arguing the other side. I knew some Republic of Texas people that really thought it was smart to not pay taxes and claim all sorts of legal sounding defense. They selectively picked laws (and ignored others entirely) to make their point. They were basically just gambling and justifying. Sounds like this guy may have been gambling with taxes and kept failing to hit 00 on the wheel and got really mad. I don't really believe a man's word that would abadond his family, destroy their house, and still own an airplane?
 
Old 02-18-2010, 02:53 PM
 
Location: G-Town
413 posts, read 610,217 times
Reputation: 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by thoroughly modern millie View Post
Five years ago Joseph Duncan a pedophile, brutally murdered I believe 7 people and kidnapped two young children. He murdered one of them before he was caught. I'm y'all remember the story. To this day his dispicable blog is still up. Don't see the FBI that was involved in his hunt pulling it down.
Someone should contact the host and request that it be removed.
 
Old 02-18-2010, 02:54 PM
 
Location: Austin, TX
8,732 posts, read 17,948,761 times
Reputation: 3546
Quote:
Someone should contact the ISP and request that it be removed.
Not that I am going to try and find it, but I suspect it is on multiple places now (not the orginal), kind of like this guy's post. Morbid curiosity, if nothing else.
 
Old 02-18-2010, 02:55 PM
 
2,283 posts, read 2,712,240 times
Reputation: 1116
Quote:
Originally Posted by thoroughly modern millie View Post
It's a shame he was driven to commit such an act.
Saying that one is "driven to" do anything is a cop out and a way excuse people for their actions. We are responsible for everything we do. No one else controls our actions. The responsibility for these heinous acts rests completely on his shoulders. There are ways that we can understand why he may have been motivated to take such actions, and we can learn from these and feel compassion for a person who has "lost it". But no amount of explaining can relieve him of responsibility for his actions.
 
Old 02-18-2010, 02:55 PM
 
Location: G-Town
413 posts, read 610,217 times
Reputation: 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainwreck20 View Post
I don't really believe a man's word that would abadond his family, destroy their house, and still own an airplane?
Good point. A father's first responsibility is to his family, everything else comes second.
 
Old 02-18-2010, 02:57 PM
 
Location: London.
587 posts, read 784,495 times
Reputation: 408
Quote:
Originally Posted by absolutely View Post
actually, the "home.htm" page is down as well. it contained his actual address and phone number, so it's understandable they would censor this particular bit of information.

however, it is entirely suspicious that his manifesto was taken down 3 hours after the event due to "sensitive material". there have been suicide letters from certifiably deranged individuals that have been left online for years, never having been taking down by the isp after the crimes were committed. but a letter containing certain anti-captitalist/organized religion/corporate greed beliefs that potentially millions could read is promptly removed from public view?

Moderator cut: language
at this point in our american history, you would have to be a moron to actually take anything the media has to say, seriously. they're simply exploiting the fiasco for competitive ratings. to come to a rational and conclusive understanding of joe stack's motives by actually reading the manifesto and forming your own opinion, would be FAR too intellectual for the american public. instead, the majority has their eyes fixated on the tv and news sites as we speak, allowing the press to cram biased and arrogant assessments down their throats.
I'm a former Austin resident that now lives in Europe and reading his message just brought back the utter contempt I have for the justice dept, including the police department, not only in Austin, but where I expereinced it most. Not that they are any different where I am. It's global.
 
Old 02-18-2010, 02:58 PM
 
Location: austin
164 posts, read 184,648 times
Reputation: 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by Runemaster View Post
Someone should contact the host and request that it be removed.
the point is though, that the isp didn't remove the document only hours after the incident.
 
Old 02-18-2010, 03:00 PM
 
Location: Austin, Texas
544 posts, read 905,096 times
Reputation: 144
it's all so totally sad
 
Old 02-18-2010, 03:00 PM
 
Location: austin
164 posts, read 184,648 times
Reputation: 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by G Grasshopper View Post
Saying that one is "driven to" do anything is a cop out and a way excuse people for their actions. We are responsible for everything we do. No one else controls our actions. The responsibility for these heinous acts rests completely on his shoulders. There are ways that we can understand why he may have been motivated to take such actions, and we can learn from these and feel compassion for a person who has "lost it". But no amount of explaining can relieve him of responsibility for his actions.
you're so off base. i would love to live in the world you do.

"There are ways that we can understand why he may have been motivated to take such actions" - yeah, by reading the manifesto.
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