How can we in Austin reduce our dependence on oil? (San Antonio: how much, buying)
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How can we in Austin reduce our dependence on oil?
The Oil Spill Tracker thread prompted me to start this one. Share your ideas.
I was going to suggest using paper bags rather then plastic, but after researching it I found this article which says plastic may be a better choice when all of the environmental impacts are considered.
Consumers find themselves between a rock and a hard place when it comes to paper or plastic. To find out what is best to do in the grocery store, we turned to Allen Hershkowitz of the Natural Resources Defense Council.
"It depends on where you live," he says.
Plastic bags threaten wildlife along the coasts, so if that's where you call home, Hershkowitz says the choice should be paper. In the heartland, he says it's plastic.
"I just assumed paper was the better choice — more environmentally friendly choice," our guilty shopper says.
But people don't realize how big a footprint the paper industry has.
Here's how paper and plastic stack up side by side:
To make all the bags we use each year, it takes 14 million trees for paper and 12 million barrels of oil for plastic. The production of paper bags creates 70 percent more air pollution than plastic, but plastic bags create four times the solid waste — enough to fill the Empire State Building two and a half times. And they can last up to a thousand years.
Plastic, because it's cheaper to produce, is the overwhelming choice of grocery stores across the nation — the average family of four uses almost 1,500 of these a year. San Francisco is limiting consumers' freedom of choice, allowing only biodegradable plastic bags, which break down over months rather than hundreds of years.
Some of the things we could do are obvious, yet hardly anyone does them. Such as car pool to and from work. It requires a little extra inconvenience and time in our daily lives but can save us quite a bit of money, not only in gas but in the cost of owning and maintaining our cars.
Why don't you car pool?
I car pooled for part of my career before I retired. That was when I spent most of my time designing and drafting architectural projects. I had to stop carpooling when I started doing construction administration and project management. I had to drive to construction sites all over town and needed a car. I would not have had to do that if my company provided us with a car pool vehicle for those job site visits.
I'm semi-retired now and drive very little, around 3,000 miles last year, so I have few opportunities to car pool. I do however drive clear up to North Austin every two weeks to my allergy doctor, 26 miles round trip, that is 676 miles per year I could reduce most of that if I found a Doctor closer to my house. I will look into that. Too bad I like the Dr. in North Austin.
How do cloth bags (reused) compare to plastic or paper? I have been trying to use cloth bags, of which I have several.
Not all plastic bags are equal, the ones Target uses are thicker (I always save these for reuse).
Isn't it true that plastic NEVER completely decomposes? Do we not have an issue with plastic particles in our oceans, showing up inside fish?
Paper does decompose completely.
As for transportation I do mostly walk and use mass transit. But I do sometimes bum rides. If the person was going that way anyway, I am not making an extra impact. However, I have bummed rides, where the person did have to drive farther than they otherwise would have, to drop me off.
Cloth bags, especially those that use recycled content are obviously better. We are sort of addicted to reusing the plastic bag cleaning up after our cat and two birds. But I'm beginning to think it might be irresponsible to be wrapping that kind of waste in plastic bags. LOL
As the article above said, Paper bags are the best choice if you live near the ocean.
Bumming a ride is car pooling in my opinion, we should do it more often.
How do cloth bags (reused) compare to plastic or paper? I have been trying to use cloth bags, of which I have several.
Not all plastic bags are equal, the ones Target uses are thicker (I always save these for reuse).
Isn't it true that plastic NEVER completely decomposes? Do we not have an issue with plastic particles in our oceans, showing up inside fish?
Paper does decompose completely.
As for transportation I do mostly walk and use mass transit. But I do sometimes bum rides. If the person was going that way anyway, I am not making an extra impact. However, I have bummed rides, where the person did have to drive farther than they otherwise would have, to drop me off.
Cloth bags are better than paper or plastic, if they have a long life. If someone buys a cloth bag and then only uses it once, then it was a waste and has a much larger enviornmental impact than just using plastic bags.
However, if you take your cloth bags with you EVERYTIME (I leave mine in the car) then over the lifetime of that bag you have made a very large impact on sustaining your enviornment.
Of course the BEST choice in bags is the "no bag". If I am at HEB and have less than 5 items, I no bag it. I can carry out my measly groceries by hand. Cashiers often stare at me blankly though. I have had situations where I will buy one 20 oz soda in a gas station and the cashier will try to put it in a bag. When I say "no bag please" they look at me like I have grown a 2nd head. I have had to be very assertive with some cashiers to not waste a bag on me.
I can't carpool though. My job requires me to drive around Austin and the surrounding areas all day long visiting buisnesses. I couldn't organize a carpool around that.
I do drive a Prius. However, I am not a true "enviornmentalist". I mostly bought the Prius because of the good gas mileage. I get reimbursed for my miles, and the less I spend in gas is the more cash in my pocket. In this particular case, being enviornmentally friendly made good financial sense. That is not always the case. To drive from Pflugerville to San Antonio costs me half a tank of gas, or $12.50. I get reimbursed $98 for that same trip in mileage. It more than offsets the higher cost of the Prius, and I get to act all snooty around my non-hybrid owning friends.
I don't know what else I can do to reduce my dependency on foreign oil. I telecommute when possible. I try not to make multiple trips in a day (ie, go pick up that milk I forgot on the way home, oh, now let's go pick up kids from soccer game, oh, now let's go get takeout). I live in Pflugerville though, there is nothing in walking distance of me, and mass transit is not existent. Everything around me is a product of oil. The soda I am drinking comes from a plastic bottle. It was driven here from Wherever they bottle Diet Dr. Pepper. The banana I am eating for lunch wasn't grown anywhere near me. It is overwhelming. Watching the dead wildlife and oily beaches is heart breaking, but I am really at a loss as to what I can do. I am not ready to move to the hippie commune just yet.
Also, about plastic never decomposing. That is a bit of a red herring. It's true that plastic is around a LONG time, but that doesn't mean it will be here forever. The reason paper bags break down is because paper (wood pulp) has been around forever. It exists in nature. And so in nature there are microbes and bacteria that can break down and decompose paper. It's what happens to everything when it decays. Microbes eat it and break it down. Plastic is not natural. It was made in a laboratory. So no microbes exist currently to help break it down. But that doesn't mean that those microbes will NEVER exist. Eventually something is going to figure out how to eat plastic, and boy is it going to have a good meal. Thousands and millions of years after humans are dead and gone, there will be a lifeform after us that will happily consume all the plastic we left behind. Just like we currently happily consume all the wonderful oil that the dinosaurs left behind for us.
I use cloth bags. I use the plastic produce bags for the cat clean up! I wish I could carpool - it's a miserable commute and the company would be nice. Even when DH and I worked in the same place we didn't carpool because our start and stop times were 1.5 hours apart. I have not been able to find anyone that has the same commute and relatively same hours. I would not have chosen to live where I do now had I realized 16 years ago that traffic would be so bad and gas so expensive.
We've considered moving closer to work but it doesn't make good economic sense overall. I wish there was more I could do that would make me feel better about reducing my oil consumption.
1) I'm not necessarily advocating this, but just throwing it out there: How about not building any more roads? I know people will say that increased traffic will waste oil, and add to pollution... but our walking and public transportation infrastructure is sorely lacking. People can't ditch their car because there is no alternative. The only way to improve this infrastructure very well may be to allow the city to become a parking lot, and work to relieve it without more roads.
2) Seems like buying local would reduce dependence on shipping... which is something we'll have to get used to if we really ever want to get off oil. Shipping costs will have to skyrocket with the price of oil or a suitable alternative.
3) Buy expensive non-oil produced power. Like solar or wind. Austin Energy is already doing this, moving to 30% clean energy. The rates will go up, but really, that's just going to be a fact of life to reduce dependence on oil. We should be trying to make up for that increase by reducing our use of energy (increasing efficiency).
4) Don't know what we'll do about air travel.. but I guess we should be prepared to pay several times more for that, too.
5) There are two car-share programs in town. I suppose anyone who can use that (lives in an area where those cars are accessible), should use it.
6) Go ahead and go to an electric vehicle. Austin's getting 5000 new electric charging stations, so the infrastructure for these vehicles will be in place: More electric car charging station for Austin?
1) I'm not necessarily advocating this, but just throwing it out there: How about not building any more roads? I know people will say that increased traffic will waste oil, and add to pollution... but our walking and public transportation infrastructure is sorely lacking. People can't ditch their car because there is no alternative. The only way to improve this infrastructure very well may be to allow the city to become a parking lot, and work to relieve it without more roads.
2) Seems like buying local would reduce dependence on shipping... which is something we'll have to get used to if we really ever want to get off oil. Shipping costs will have to skyrocket with the price of oil or a suitable alternative.
3) Buy expensive non-oil produced power. Like solar or wind. Austin Energy is already doing this, moving to 30% clean energy. The rates will go up, but really, that's just going to be a fact of life to reduce dependence on oil. We should be trying to make up for that increase by reducing our use of energy (increasing efficiency).
4) Don't know what we'll do about air travel.. but I guess we should be prepared to pay several times more for that, too.
5) There are two car-share programs in town. I suppose anyone who can use that (lives in an area where those cars are accessible), should use it.
6) Go ahead and go to an electric vehicle. Austin's getting 5000 new electric charging stations, so the infrastructure for these vehicles will be in place: More electric car charging station for Austin?
You have sort of hit the nail on the head there. Q: Why don't we reduce our dependancy on oil? A: It costs more.
It doesn't cost more in those things that matter. It doesn't cost more in peace of mind, or in the enviornment. It doesn't cost more in national safety. It doesn't cost more for what we are leaving behind for future generations. But it DOES cost more in money. Lovely lovely money.
And that's why we will not kick our oil habit until the oil runs out. Because no one wants to pay more now. They want to pay more later. Why do you think restaurants bring you your check at the end of dinner? Because if you knew how much it would cost at the beggining, you would probably eat less.
How do cloth bags (reused) compare to plastic or paper? I have been trying to use cloth bags, of which I have several.
Not all plastic bags are equal, the ones Target uses are thicker (I always save these for reuse).
Isn't it true that plastic NEVER completely decomposes? Do we not have an issue with plastic particles in our oceans, showing up inside fish?
Paper does decompose completely.
Eileen, it is true that plastic bags never completely decompose. They break up into smaller and smaller pieces. This is why you have to look carefully at packaging. If your bag is labeled as "degradable", that just means that it will break up into small pieces. That is not a meaningful improvement over regular plastic. Bags that are labeled as "biodegradable" or "compostable" are better, but we have to remember that they will only degrade in the conditions of compost, and will not degrade in a landfill, and they can do a lot of damage in the ocean before they actually degrade. Many bags are made with a mixture of corn products and plastic. Again, I consider that to be only a marginal improvement. A huge number of plastic bags end up in the ocean because they are blown there or into waterways that eventually get to the ocean. Once there, if they are whole or in big pieces, they often kill sea turtles and birds, who mistake them for jellyfish. If they are in small pieces, they are mistaken for plankton by numerous fish, birds, and invertebrates, and contribute to their sickening and death. There has been a lot of debate about paper vs. plastic as far as energy and resources used to produce them. I don't know what the current thinking is, but on the other end of their "lives", you are right that paper does decompose, and is not nearly the risk to sea life. Of course, cloth bags that you use over and over and can wash are a much better choice. And no bag is great, too. I have found that people at stores are getting much more used to the "no bag" option. They should like it, as it saves them money!
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