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Once the U.S. Collapses, Canada is going to be invaded by mass migration.
Europe is the best place to live. Australia and Canada are great because they are linked to Europe (U.K.).
Once Australia and Canada detaches from the U.K., that is going to be the end of their prosperirty.
The USA is a bizarre country because the media shows a fantastic USA through the movies and tv shows but the reality of the country is different.
The USA Gini coefficient (income inequality) is horrible, the worst of any developed nation and even worser than many underdeveloped nations. The USA gini coefficient is worst than Cameroon.
A small percent of the USA population owns a huge percent of the country's total wealth. The rest of the joes and janes have a horrible safety net with no mass transist systems, unwalkable cities, no universal healthcare, expensive college education, one of the lowest minimum wages of the developed world (after taxes), and socialism is perceived as a "Sin". Tax dollars are routed to finance a super huge army.
Even universal healthcare and green energy is perceived as a sin. The media brainwashes you so that you buy huge trucks or a hummer, and spend a huge percent of your money in gas, more gas, and more gas.
If I were you, I'd try to relocate to Europe. If you don't have access to a EU passport, I would pick Australia, followed by Canada, and New Zealand.
Australia invented the minimum wage. The first country to adopt it, and even specific professions have minimum wages (Accountants, engineers, teachers, etc etc), so there is no discrimination in salaries and nobody is underpaid. That's why Australia has an excellent gini coefficient. Both Canada and Australia have higher minimum wages than the USA, excellent mass transit systems, good healthcare, and political stability (No Bill O'Reilly promoting hate, no "presidents", no republicans and no democrats).
Good luck.
Where do you come up with this stuff? Clearly you never travel around the USA.
People in the USA have a better standard of living than any other large country in the world.
If "universal health care" was so great, Canadians would not come en-mass to the USA for basic surgery and cancer treatments. Try getting an MRI in Canada.
Safety net? In the USA, we have a massive safety net, one that needs to be trimmed. There are all sorts of local, state and federal welfare programs. In my neighborhood there are plenty of welfare bums that get subsidized housing, money, food stamps, free health care, cell phones, etc.
No mass transit? Huh? No walkable cities? Huh? Massive army? North Korea and Vietnam have larger armies than ours. Green Energy a sin? Don't know where you came up with that. Everyone is for "green" energy as long as it is truly green and cost effective. Some of it is a boondoogle.
Excellent mass transit in Canada or Australia? I don't find anything exceptional about it or "better" than the USA.
Minimum wage in Australia? Yeah that might be high for low skilled work but it also drives up the costs of everything, so you don't really get ahead as it cancels that increase out.
Canada and Australia have had a good run for a while due to the commodities boom. As China and other countries slow down, they will as well.
As in the "Old America" of Dubya? That's what a lot of folks inside and outside the U.S. fear. LOL.
Dubya did a poor job with controlling spending and regulation, so while not as bad as obama, no that's not whats being talked about.
The growing anger in America is towards the over bloated, over regulated, over bureaucrated government, regardless of what political party they are. People are tired of smug politicians dictating to us thousands of pages of new rules, fees and taxes.
There are some people with a view that gubment is like mommy and daddy to them and they are incompetent little children that can't make decisions for themselves or care for themselves. Most Americans can do without all that nursemaiding and I think this years elections are going to be interesting.
Personally what people outside the USA fear or don't fear, I don't really care. People spend way too much time worried about the USA, when they really need to focus on their own neighborhood or better yet a focus on thug dictators like Mugabe or radical terrorists.
Alright thanks for the correction, though the percentage is certainly much higher in the urban areas of Australia, such as Melbourne and Sydney, where he's likely to be living.
It would be the same in Canada.. more cultural mix in the cities..
Hi folks! I'm young guy who has finally decided to go to college in either Australia or Canada with the intent of building a career there and becoming a productive, positive, and fully integrated citizen someday. I hope this post doesn't generate too many "F$%$ Off, We're full!" responses, but if it does, that's okay, too.
OK here is my take. I've LIVED in both Australia (Adelaide) and Canada (Toronto). Guess where I now live? ... New Hampshire... so the grass is not always greener elsewhere.
AUSTRALIA
PROS
- Proximity to Asia
- People (I made lots of friends w/ whom I keep in touch with)
- Weather
- Scenery
- culture
- I still call Australia home!
CONS
- IF you are in a professional career, not as many career options as elsewhere (small, remote population). A good chunk of my friends from business school want to leave for Hong Kong, Singapore, Europe and the US.
-Currency did fluctuate crazily in past few years from .68 to almost par
-Tied to China (commodities export) economy
-High cost of real estate. AUS and NZ are among the least affordable countries.
- Expensive to live - Broadband, clothing, etc. etc.
- Expensive airfares to go back to North America and interstate (though its better now than when I lived there).
- my allergies were horrid
CANADA
PROS
- Cheaper than Australia for pretty much everything
- Western Canada is economically sound
- Scenery
- Healthcare (I had great health care in Toronto)
- living in Toronto, close prox to Buffalo (cheap airfares, shopping)
- my allergies were better in Ontario
CONS
- I was in Ontario and it was hard to find a good quality IT job at a comparable US salary (lower salary, higher taxes)
- high taxes
- too PC
- I did not find Toronto friendly (I actually find NYers friendlier)
USA
PROS
- highest salary of all 3, most career options (for me)... I can make all this $$$ to finance my trips home (Oz)
- weather (I hated too mu heat and too much cold)
- lowest tax burden of all 3 -- at least for me living in a state with no income or sales tax
- multicultural cities (northeast)
- I found a job here (not Canada)
CONS
- I hate both political parties equally and the people that support both from right wing Christian nuts to left liberals scare me. I'm a fiscal conservative (social liberal).
OK here is my take. I've LIVED in both Australia (Adelaide) and Canada (Toronto). Guess where I now live? ... New Hampshire... so the grass is not always greener elsewhere.
...
CANADA
...
CONS
- I was in Ontario and it was hard to find a good quality IT job at a comparable US salary (lower salary, higher taxes)
- high taxes
- too PC
- I did not find Toronto friendly (I actually find NYers friendlier)
Unless they're stuck up bluebloods or wanna-be bluebloods, Americans are friendlier than Canadians almost without exception. Canadians will dispute this notion, of course, but I have traveled far and wide in both Canada and the United States, I have lived in a number of cities in both countries, and I always seem to enjoy a more easy camaraderie and better rapport with the Americans that I meet than I do with most Canadians.
Canadians are also completely discouraged from being truly independent thinkers. Most Canadians stand ready to mock what they percieve to be hypernationalistic, hyper-religious and aggressive American tendencies, but in reality they are just as bad with their mindless reverence for national icons like Pierre Elliott Trudeau, Tommy Douglas, Lester B. Pearson, medicare, peacekeepers, hockey, the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation, etc. If you do anything to question the sanctity of one of these supposed icons or if you don't express enthusiasm for their woolly-headed groovy cause du jour, you can be guaranteed that some passive-aggressive, self-righteous Canadian will do his or her best to stifle your attempts to freely express yourself. The thought police are alive and well in Canada and you'd better fall in line or be cut down.
And you're absolutely right that taxes are too high in Canada. Most seem to think that is the price of a "just society" (whatever that means). I view it as a license to fritter away people's hard-earned money on government frivolity and something that does little to rein in the spendthrift ways of Canada's large public and quasi-public sector. Salaries are also lower in just about every profession.
Quote:
Originally Posted by minibrings
USA
PROS
- highest salary of all 3, most career options (for me)... I can make all this $$$ to finance my trips home (Oz)
- weather (I hated too mu heat and too much cold)
- lowest tax burden of all 3 -- at least for me living in a state with no income or sales tax
- multicultural cities (northeast)
- I found a job here (not Canada)
CONS
- I hate both political parties equally and the people that support both from right wing Christian nuts to left liberals scare me. I'm a fiscal conservative (social liberal).
For skilled professionals, America does offer the best mix of salaries, taxes and job opportunities of any of Canada, Australia and the United States. No doubt about it. I'm not as fond of the weather as you are -- there's far too much ice and snow in many parts of the United States for my liking -- but everyone has their own preferences when it comes to that.
Regrettably, your largely libertarian leanings are not popular in any of the three countries. People have grown accustomed to having the state take ever-larger shares of their money while at the same time it tells the citizenry what to do with increasing frequency. There's no quick fix for that, I'm afraid.
Where do you come up with this stuff? Clearly you never travel around the USA.
People in the USA have a better standard of living than any other large country in the world.
If "universal health care" was so great, Canadians would not come en-mass to the USA for basic surgery and cancer treatments. Try getting an MRI in Canada.
Safety net? In the USA, we have a massive safety net, one that needs to be trimmed. There are all sorts of local, state and federal welfare programs. In my neighborhood there are plenty of welfare bums that get subsidized housing, money, food stamps, free health care, cell phones, etc.
No mass transit? Huh? No walkable cities? Huh? Massive army? North Korea and Vietnam have larger armies than ours. Green Energy a sin? Don't know where you came up with that. Everyone is for "green" energy as long as it is truly green and cost effective. Some of it is a boondoogle.
Excellent mass transit in Canada or Australia? I don't find anything exceptional about it or "better" than the USA.
Minimum wage in Australia? Yeah that might be high for low skilled work but it also drives up the costs of everything, so you don't really get ahead as it cancels that increase out.
Canada and Australia have had a good run for a while due to the commodities boom. As China and other countries slow down, they will as well.
Personally what people outside the USA fear or don't fear, I don't really care. People spend way too much time worried about the USA, when they really need to focus on their own neighborhood or better yet a focus on thug dictators like Mugabe or radical terrorists.
Agree with most of what you say, except a few points
1. re: Standard of living - most recent index: As of 31 December 2009 this showed 1 France, 2 Australia, 3 Switzerland, 4 Germany, 5 New Zealand, 6 Luxembourg, 7 USA, 8 Belgium, 9 Canada, 10 Italy.
S.o.L would be far better in upper middle class America compared to worldwide, however anything below that and it starts to drag behind.
2. re: Canada, Australia and the commodities boom - Australia's economy is heavily linked to Asia - before China it was Japan. The rise of Asia is nothing but good news for the Australian economy. The Australian economy is - and has been for a while - in far, far better shape than the US economy.
3. re: world perception on US - what the US does politically has far greater influence worldwide than what Mugabe or radical terrorists do, hence the interest.
and I say all of this as someone who has lived and wants to return to the US.
Pros for both: Low GINI (Income inequality measure)more so in Oz, from my own observations. Our social benefits are a lot more generous and include more families here, even with high-ish incomes
Less corrupt than the US (or so it appears)hmmm, I think there's a level of corruption here in Oz, just below the surface. Our cops don't have the best rep and we seem to have a lot more sleazebags ripping off people's life savings and getting away with it than anything I heard of when I lived in Canada. Consumer protection here is a joke. And there's more of the "old boys' club" stuff here still. And "old footie club" thing too.
Better infrastructure than the US (Australia might have an edge here, I don't know.)Your freeways are way better, as are amenities while out on the road. Your National Park system is amaaaaaazing!
A better health care systemCanada's is the cheapest, here you pay more than Canada and you have the option of Private Health Insurance (not cheap) but I prefer having that option. I have no problem with paying to insure my health care. Similar waiting lists in both countries' public hospitals but if you need emergency care, you get taken care of.
A more civil society (less crime, less people per capita in prisons.)I think it was TropicalAussie who said it right earlier in this thread - there's less in prison because they're out on the streets instead. Drink and drive while your license is suspended for a prior drink and drive conviction, hit and kill a kid, and you get some paltry fine and no jail time. 300 convictions? Out and about, wreaking havoc. Ludicrous "legal" system here. I really think vigilantiism is the very next step, and soon. There's more of general lack of respect here that I noticed - more vandalism, litter, grafitti and general sh**ty behaviour but funnily enough, we're anal about queues and very polite overall.
Australia Pros:
Climate -depends. Big country, different climates. 44C is Hell. 2C at night in crappy built houses with single-paned windows and no wall insulation is Hell Frozen Over. But it's not all bad.
High Minimum Wage -great but one downside: makes COL high
Superannuation - best options to squirrel away lots of money if you can afford it but you really have to keep an eye on it, tweaking regularly but many are too lazy.
Low Gov't Debt -not anymore
Generally more "can-do" culture (vis-a-vis Canada)I think that's more an American trait. Here it's far more casual - She'll Be Right.
"Mateship"which if abused can lead to corruption
Fun looking new sports to learn and new teams to support.True. There's footie, footie, and more footie. Canadians go on about Hockey Being a Religion, here Footie is A Fanatical Cult. Any little mishap in some footie player's life and it's front page news and first story on the tv news, and then again during the sports segment! They even go on and on ad nauseum about what wives & girlfriends of footie players are wearing to some awards event. Or the footie player's hooker for the night, who can tell the difference? (meow!) It's such a big deal! And then there's cricket - same dramas. And rugby - not as dramatic.
Physically closer to Asia/India. (Great for trips to other fun places!)But still expensive to fly anywhere, especially from Perth. Cheaper options more recently, but really really budget airlines. Travel within Oz is high-priced.
Australia Cons: Very high consumer debt(Housing bubble)Yeah, lotta people living the high life on credit here. Most buy houses with all the bells and whistles right away, no waiting to save up for curtains or furniture.
Internet filter -grrrrrrrr!
Cost of housingWay overpriced, especially in Perth. And even in small towns out in the middle of nowhere.
Water shortage problems in the future?Especially with the aversion to building dams. Lots of water up north, could catch it in dams but the Greenies don't want dams and govts are beholden to them, so we suffer
Cost of living somewhat higher than Canada it seems.Yes, it is in a lot of respects, i.e., food and housing in smaller cities and towns.
Slow InternetYup, and expensive for that slowness.
Canada Pros: Lower cost of transport/running a car.Insurance is cheaper here.
Lower housing costAs long as you stay out of Vancouver, and Toronto and Calgary to a certain degree. There are more options in Canada for affordable housing. Here, it seems every city is overpriced, and every not-so-small city. Even dust-blown fly-ridden places out in the middle of absolutely nowhere here in Oz are high-priced.
Canada Cons: Too PC - boy, is it ever! But then any place is "too PC" compared to Oz
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haddock
So that's my list of pros and cons for each place. I'd really welcome any input on the list and your opinions on which country you think will fare better in the next fifty years?
50 years? Wow, that's some long-term planning there!
They're both big countries and maybe your list generalises a bit. Not all of Canada, or all of Australia, have the same pros/cons. Depends on which city/town, and your own preferences/needs. And you know, everyone will have a different take on your list, depending on their own preferences and experiences. We can argue the old "which country is better" thing til the cows come home and not come to a consensus. It all depends on you.
OK here is my take. I've LIVED in both Australia (Adelaide) and Canada (Toronto). Guess where I now live? ... New Hampshire... so the grass is not always greener elsewhere.
AUSTRALIA
PROS
- Proximity to Asia
- People (I made lots of friends w/ whom I keep in touch with)
- Weather
- Scenery
- culture
- I still call Australia home!
CONS
- IF you are in a professional career, not as many career options as elsewhere (small, remote population). A good chunk of my friends from business school want to leave for Hong Kong, Singapore, Europe and the US.
-Currency did fluctuate crazily in past few years from .68 to almost par
-Tied to China (commodities export) economy
-High cost of real estate. AUS and NZ are among the least affordable countries.
- Expensive to live - Broadband, clothing, etc. etc.
- Expensive airfares to go back to North America and interstate (though its better now than when I lived there).
- my allergies were horrid
CANADA
PROS
- Cheaper than Australia for pretty much everything
- Western Canada is economically sound
- Scenery
- Healthcare (I had great health care in Toronto)
- living in Toronto, close prox to Buffalo (cheap airfares, shopping)
- my allergies were better in Ontario
CONS
- I was in Ontario and it was hard to find a good quality IT job at a comparable US salary (lower salary, higher taxes)
- high taxes
- too PC
- I did not find Toronto friendly (I actually find NYers friendlier)
USA
PROS
- highest salary of all 3, most career options (for me)... I can make all this $$$ to finance my trips home (Oz)
- weather (I hated too mu heat and too much cold)
- lowest tax burden of all 3 -- at least for me living in a state with no income or sales tax
- multicultural cities (northeast)
- I found a job here (not Canada)
CONS
- I hate both political parties equally and the people that support both from right wing Christian nuts to left liberals scare me. I'm a fiscal conservative (social liberal).
Good post minibrings.
I am fairly lucky, I live in the great liberal state of Vermont. Even considering the taxes here I have the best standard of living and the highest wages.
I have lived in NZ, Australia and now the US so I can't comment on Canada except to say Quebecean drivers are the worst I have ever seen and they are arrogant to boot.
I am fairly lucky, I live in the great liberal state of Vermont. Even considering the taxes here I have the best standard of living and the highest wages.
I have lived in NZ, Australia and now the US so I can't comment on Canada except to say Quebecean drivers are the worst I have ever seen and they are arrogant to boot.
LOL! Yup! Totally agree.
I happily drive on LA freeways during rush hour but I have never driven in Montreal. I let hubby do that as he's one of those aggro lunatic Montreal drivers (when in Montreal).
Montreal was the first, and only, place I've seen drivers get out and get into a fistfight. Twice. I've seen people deliberately squeeze out other drivers trying to merge. In fact, you don't merge, you play a game of chicken - who backs down first, coming within centimeters of one another. You don't indicate/signal in Montreal as that invites other drivers to do whatever it takes to not let you in. You just find a small space and go for it. People use the emergency lane to butt in front of other traffic, or the exit lane on highways. It's gobsmacking what goes on there. But I love the city.
I am fairly lucky, I live in the great liberal state of Vermont. Even considering the taxes here I have the best standard of living and the highest wages.
I have lived in NZ, Australia and now the US so I can't comment on Canada except to say Quebecean drivers are the worst I have ever seen and they are arrogant to boot.
Thanks. I tried to be objective. Hope I did not portray Canada in too negative a light; its a great country, except Toronto wasn't for me (I know, I know Toronto isn't Canada).
BTW talk about horrible drivers.. I think Torontonians are up there.. I always hated driving on the 401 on my way home in traffic. Ugh. Talk about mess and rudeness. People who think Canadians are universally friendly and polite should be given a car and told to drive the 401 in rush hour. Another option would be to put them in the crowd for the bus that takes you from Kittering station to the airport.. its a free for all more reminiscent of a third world country. LOL.
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It's such a big deal! And then there's cricket - same dramas. And rugby - not as dramatic.
Yup! Totally agree.
