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Old 08-07-2012, 09:29 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
Australia seems like the perfect country to retire to: friendly people; open space; 1st world living conditions.

BUT!!

Take a gander at what they require from a person seeking a retirement visa:

I should add that even after investing minimum 1 million dollars in Australia you still do not nor will you ever qualify for state-sponsored health care.

Needless to say I won't be moving to Australia any time soon.
Yes I don't think you will be moving there.

I imagine you expected to turn up and then collect a nice pension and healthcare paid by the young workers of Australia.

They don't want old geezers just plopping down in Australia with no money and then having health issues or money issues and the state ending up have to support them.

Last I checked Australia does allow retired people to come for part of the year for up to 6 months at a time in a calendar year, New Zealand does the same. They just don't want you settling down permanently and becoming a ward of the state. And why would they?

I came across an angry, very liberal American guy years ago. He thought he could move to New Zealand and "retire" there and collect a New Zealand pension and healthcare and other benefits despite never even having been there, ever. Ummm yeah that is not how it works.
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Old 08-07-2012, 10:36 AM
 
Location: Sunshine Coast, BC
10,791 posts, read 7,494,366 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kobber View Post
It's my understanding that as long as you keep up to date with your premiums, Australian health insurance companies can't cancel you - regardless of how sick you may get.
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielsa1775 View Post
That's correct and they cannot force you out of the system by rapidly increasing their premiums either. No person in a right mind would hold private insurance if what the op stated was actually correct.
Yes, this is why I say the Australian health care system is so good. Australian private health insurance is not as harsh and unforgiving as the US system. It's government-regulated, not run like big business out to make massive profits at the expense of the sick. I'm not anti-business, I just don't believe big business behaviour should apply to your health. And neither should your health cover be tied to who you work for. Australian private health insurance is so much more flexible.

For some treatments or pre-existing conditions, you have to serve a waiting period before that treatment is covered. You're not denied for pre-existing conditions like in the US - you just serve the waiting period. This is to make sure you don't jump onto private health, get an expensive procedure done right away, then cancel your policy right after, leaving the other insurers to foot your bill. Sounds intelligent to me. The excess (deductibles) are also a lot lower than the US, as are the premiums for Australian residents.

Last edited by Vichel; 08-07-2012 at 10:49 AM..
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Old 08-07-2012, 11:07 AM
 
10,177 posts, read 10,538,351 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danielsa1775 View Post
That's correct and they cannot force you out of the system by rapidly increasing their premiums either. No person in a right mind would hold private insurance if what the op stated was actually correct.
Are you saying that that condition about not being able to hike premiums to force you out is built into the law and is ironclad? Not meaning to go political here for a second but I'm afraid that is what is going to neuter Obamacare---sure, companies can't drop you, but if they decided they don't want you on their rolls they can defacto "drop you" by hiking their premiums so high you wouldn't be able to pay and would just cancel on your own.


Quote:
Originally Posted by the troubadour View Post
I imagine some rich Asian retirees may take up the offer but few else. Meanwhile it is very expensive to live in Australia on the pension. More folk seem to be retiring in South East Asia in order to live with a greater degree of comfort.
Numbers are still small but increasing.

There would be no value these days in Western foreigners coming to retire in OZ. Very poor value indeed. Unless of course one has family of some sort already here.

Malaysia offers a better deal....Ecuador is popular with North Americans.....Sri Lanka seems to have a good deal.....
I think people choose Australia because of the way it's been marketed i.e. a sort of fantasyland with exotic backdrop but 1st world living conditions, at least in the densely populated areas. The other countries don't sound too attractive. I mean Ecuador, SriLanka??? Poverty runs rampant in most of these easy-to-get-into countries that are begging wealthy foreigners to emigrate to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wanneroo View Post
Yes I don't think you will be moving there.

I imagine you expected to turn up and then collect a nice pension and healthcare paid by the young workers of Australia.

They don't want old geezers just plopping down in Australia with no money and then having health issues or money issues and the state ending up have to support them.

Last I checked Australia does allow retired people to come for part of the year for up to 6 months at a time in a calendar year, New Zealand does the same. They just don't want you settling down permanently and becoming a ward of the state. And why would they?

I came across an angry, very liberal American guy years ago. He thought he could move to New Zealand and "retire" there and collect a New Zealand pension and healthcare and other benefits despite never even having been there, ever. Ummm yeah that is not how it works.
I don't blame the gov't either, but if they're going to ask someone to invest 1.5 million to get into a population center certainly that person has a right to expect at least something on return for their investment besides the "privilege of living on our shores". In addition to the everyday expenses, there are the health premiums, auto ins. premiums, etc on top of it. If Australia is going to make it nearly impossible for people to come there, why even offer a retirement visa?
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Old 08-07-2012, 11:35 AM
 
Location: Sunshine Coast, BC
10,791 posts, read 7,494,366 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
Are you saying that that condition about not being able to hike premiums to force you out is built into the law and is ironclad? Not meaning to go political here for a second but I'm afraid that is what is going to neuter Obamacare---sure, companies can't drop you, but if they decided they don't want you on their rolls they can defacto "drop you" by hiking their premiums so high you wouldn't be able to pay and would just cancel on your own.
Read all about Australian (Oz) Private Health Insurance:
Health insurance explained

It's not as dog-eat-dog as in the US. It is government-regulated. Read the section on How health funds work. Nobody forces you off, hikes your premiums sky-high, denies you care for pre-existing conditions, nor is it tied to your employer. Far more friendly, accessible and flexible in Oz. The above link explains it all.

I think the US should look to Oz for how health care works best, instead of north, but that's off-topic.


Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
I think people choose Australia because of the way it's been marketed i.e. a sort of fantasyland with exotic backdrop but 1st world living conditions, at least in the densely populated areas.?
Well yeah, those glossy tourist brochures and ads make it look like that but Oz is desperate for tourists, as it's so far from everywhere, so the marketing schtick might be a bit over the top It is gorgeous but for day-to-day living it's like a lot of other developed countries, not Disneyland Down Under. Same rising cost of living issues and strained government-provided services.


Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
I don't blame the gov't either, but if they're going to ask someone to invest 1.5 million to get into a population center certainly that person has a right to expect at least something on return for their investment besides the "privilege of living on our shores". In addition to the everyday expenses, there are the health premiums, auto ins. premiums, etc on top of it. If Australia is going to make it nearly impossible for people to come there, why even offer a retirement visa?
To see if someone takes the bait? Many other 1st world countries don't even offer a retirement visa. The US has an "E" category of visa, the closest thing to a retirement visa, which wants $1million investment in bigger cities for temporary residence. Canada doesn't even offer one, period. You can stay in the US up to 6 months at a time, if you're Canadian or can qualify for a B1/B2 visa. But that's not as convenient as being able to stay 4 years at a time.
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Old 08-07-2012, 02:36 PM
 
Location: Brisbane
3,360 posts, read 5,178,606 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
Are you saying that that condition about not being able to hike premiums to force you out is built into the law and is ironclad? Not meaning to go political here for a second but I'm afraid that is what is going to neuter Obamacare---sure, companies can't drop you, but if they decided they don't want you on their rolls they can defacto "drop you" by hiking their premiums so high you wouldn't be able to pay and would just cancel on your own.




I think people choose Australia because of the way it's been marketed i.e. a sort of fantasyland with exotic backdrop but 1st world living conditions, at least in the densely populated areas. The other countries don't sound too attractive. I mean Ecuador, SriLanka??? Poverty runs rampant in most of these easy-to-get-into countries that are begging wealthy foreigners to emigrate to.

I don't blame the gov't either, but if they're going to ask someone to invest 1.5 million to get into a population center certainly that person has a right to expect at least something on return for their investment besides the "privilege of living on our shores". In addition to the everyday expenses, there are the health premiums, auto ins. premiums, etc on top of it. If Australia is going to make it nearly impossible for people to come there, why even offer a retirement visa?
Here are the basics of how it works.

http://www.health.gov.au/internet/main/publishing.nsf/Content/privatehealth-summary-premiumincreases#premium

You actually do get a monetary return on you investment, you have to invest your money in a qualifiy state government bond, like all other bonds they pay interest, I dont know what sort of rate these bonds pay at, but given a $1 million investment It would certainly be enough to cover your private health insurance, car insurance costs, and the rent of a typical aussie house for a year.

Last edited by danielsa1775; 08-07-2012 at 03:35 PM..
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Old 08-07-2012, 03:12 PM
 
Location: Central Bay Area, CA as of Jan 2010...but still a proud Texan from Houston!
7,484 posts, read 8,390,205 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wanneroo View Post
I came across an angry, very liberal American guy years ago. He thought he could move to New Zealand and "retire" there and collect a New Zealand pension and healthcare and other benefits despite never even having been there, ever. Ummm yeah that is not how it works.
Sounds like the typical Californian slacker mentality.
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Old 08-07-2012, 07:06 PM
 
1,482 posts, read 1,799,709 times
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It boils down to what advantage in having old geezers coming to Australia is there ?
Some immigrants seem to have a mindset that Australia owes their parents a comfortable retirement at Aus taxpayer expense.
We let immigrants in if they have the SKILLs we need and WANT, for no other reason outside of the other ANZAC country.
Would be immigrants really need to think ahead, such as what will happen to my parents when they are old and frail before they leave their home countries
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Old 08-07-2012, 07:59 PM
 
9,326 posts, read 18,977,259 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TVC15 View Post
Sounds like the typical Californian slacker mentality.
I've even encountered lots of conservatives with that 'you owe me' attitude.
Dunno if its typical Californian, its something. I mean the Silicon Valley would not have been made if people were slackers.
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Old 08-07-2012, 08:08 PM
 
10,177 posts, read 10,538,351 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danielsa1775 View Post
Here are the basics of how it works.

http://www.health.gov.au/internet/main/publishing.nsf/Content/privatehealth-summary-premiumincreases#premium

You actually do get a monetary return on you investment, you have to invest your money in a qualifiy state government bond, like all other bonds they pay interest, I dont know what sort of rate these bonds pay at, but given a $1 million investment It would certainly be enough to cover your private health insurance, car insurance costs, and the rent of a typical aussie house for a year.
Thank you, Vichel, for all your extremely interesting replies. Though I will be dreaming about moving to Aussie but not actually doing it, it is still nice to have the info.

Nice that you at least get interest returned, however small, given the current rates, but the real hangup is that your money is untouchable for likely 30 years (I'm betting it's a 30-year bond) so a retiree is never going to see a dime of that money for the rest of his life. Hey, it just dawned on me about one of the conditions I left out in my original post for brevity---that the retirees cannot have dependent children. Maybe it's a strategy to lure in childless couples so that when they kick off the money goes to the state. Verrrrrryyyyyyy interesting----and smart.
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Old 08-07-2012, 08:17 PM
 
Location: Brisbane
3,360 posts, read 5,178,606 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
Thank you, Vichel, for all your extremely interesting replies. Though I will be dreaming about moving to Aussie but not actually doing it, it is still nice to have the info.

Nice that you at least get interest returned, however small, given the current rates, but the real hangup is that your money is untouchable for likely 30 years (I'm betting it's a 30-year bond) so a retiree is never going to see a dime of that money for the rest of his life. Hey, it just dawned on me about one of the conditions I left out in my original post for brevity---that the retirees cannot have dependent children. Maybe it's a strategy to lure in childless couples so that when they kick off the money goes to the state. Verrrrrryyyyyyy interesting----and smart.


If you must know the bonds they issue for the visa have a 3 year term to maturity and no you cannot get your principle component until the bond matures, Australia has the highest central bank interest rate in the deleloped world, as a rough estimate you would be looking at a return of between 4 and 5 % PA on state government bonds.
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