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Old 08-18-2012, 07:34 PM
 
9,692 posts, read 11,383,072 times
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I don't like cigarettes one bit, but this a bit too far.
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Old 08-18-2012, 08:06 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wanneroo View Post
I don't like cigarettes one bit, but this a bit too far.
Not really. This is an industry that promotes an addictive product that kills 1 in 2 addicts. I can't think of any other product with such negative outcomes for consumers that is legal. They should count themselves lucky that they can still profit from such a deadly product.

Last edited by BCC_1; 08-18-2012 at 08:15 PM..
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Old 08-18-2012, 11:02 PM
 
Location: Eastern Sydney, Australia
1,805 posts, read 1,309,425 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BCC_1 View Post
Not really. This is an industry that promotes an addictive product that kills 1 in 2 addicts. I can't think of any other product with such negative outcomes for consumers that is legal. They should count themselves lucky that they can still profit from such a deadly product.
My grandmother is 88 years old now and she has been smoking since 16 and never gotten sick so...Alcohol should have more strict laws as it kills far more people than fags and I'm speaking from experience.
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Old 08-18-2012, 11:43 PM
ino
 
Location: Way beyond the black stump.
681 posts, read 1,239,739 times
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I don't consider it's about who likes smoking and who hates it, it's more about the hypocracy and individual freedoms being stripped away. They banned cigarette adverts at sporting events using one reason of encouraging the youth to smoke, I don't see them banning alcohol at sporting events, and that also encourages youth. But of course, booze brings in the export dollars. I want to see plain packaging on alcohol to even up the score, and not appear to segregate people into groups. What's so different about plonk drinkers? I don't beat the wife, the kids, kill people etc etc as a result of my smoking, pity the same can't be said for the many alcohol drinkers. And Yes, I do imbibe in the occasional drink myself so I'm not against alcohol consumers, but I AM against some do-gooder/academic or bureaucrat telling me what I can and can't do constantly.

We've been a 'Nanny Nation' for years, and we are being nannied more and more each week! Alcohol, drug rehab blah blah, and now refugees are costing far more than smoking ever has, and ever will!

I've been smoking since I was 14, I am now three score plus in vintage, and apart from shortness of breath perhaps, I feel fine. I shan't pass this way again so what the heck.
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Old 08-19-2012, 12:05 AM
 
1,874 posts, read 1,214,450 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by koyaanisqatsi1 View Post
My grandmother is 88 years old now and she has been smoking since 16 and never gotten sick so...Alcohol should have more strict laws as it kills far more people than fags and I'm speaking from experience.
So what? Why does a single point of reference mean anything?

As for alcohol killing more people...

Quote:
More deaths are caused each year by tobacco use than by all deaths from human immunodeficiency virus (HIV), illegal drug use, alcohol use, motor vehicle injuries, suicides, and murders combined.1,2
CDC - Fact Sheet - Tobacco-Related Mortality - Smoking & Tobacco Use

Quote:
Originally Posted by ino
I don't consider it's about who likes smoking and who hates it, it's more about the hypocracy and individual freedoms being stripped away.
What freedom has been stripped away?

Those who protest will I assume ensure that they are able to pay for their own medical care if struck down by a smoking related disease? It's all well and good to say your rights are being taken away (although I'm dubious as to which ones), but then when you get sick expect the rest of us to foot your medical bill.
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Old 08-19-2012, 01:18 AM
ino
 
Location: Way beyond the black stump.
681 posts, read 1,239,739 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BCC_1 View Post
So what? Why does a single point of reference mean anything?

As for alcohol killing more people...

CDC - Fact Sheet - Tobacco-Related Mortality - Smoking & Tobacco Use



What freedom has been stripped away?

Those who protest will I assume ensure that they are able to pay for their own medical care if struck down by a smoking related disease? It's all well and good to say your rights are being taken away (although I'm dubious as to which ones), but then when you get sick expect the rest of us to foot your medical bill.
I have never read such rubbish in my life - 'smoking has killed more than ALL those combined?' - utter rubbish, typical of the mainstream propaganda machine, but then I wouldn't expect anything else other than to serve their own, or a minority groups agenda.

Dunno where you hale from, but I've been paying into health insurance all my working life, so now it's payback time. Should it ever eventuate that I need health assistance, nobody will be giving me anything I haven't already paid for, as with my taxes. I've been looking after the establishment for quite some time, so if it ever gets to that stage the establishment can look after me. I care as much for the establishment as *IT* cares for me!

As I said, I've been smoking for quite some time and consequently have met a considerable number of other smokers, and in all those years I have not seen, nor heard, of *ONE* smoker who suffers from anything remotely like that depicted in those packet photos - and I've met a *LOT* of smokers over the years! The stats just don't add up!
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Old 08-19-2012, 02:42 AM
 
1,874 posts, read 1,214,450 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ino View Post
Dunno where you hale from, but I've been paying into health insurance all my working life, so now it's payback time. Should it ever eventuate that I need health assistance, nobody will be giving me anything I haven't already paid for, as with my taxes. I've been looking after the establishment for quite some time, so if it ever gets to that stage the establishment can look after me. I care as much for the establishment as *IT* cares for me!
If you believe that private health insurance pays your health bills then I think you need to research the Australian health system.

What does the establishment have to do with anything? Deary me, how many strawman arguments can you fit in?

Good to see that the old "it must be propaganda" canard also get a guernsey. It is the most convenient way of dismissing anything that doesn't fit one's world view.
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Old 08-19-2012, 03:22 PM
 
10,499 posts, read 5,233,205 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ino View Post
I have never read such rubbish in my life - 'smoking has killed more than ALL those combined?' - utter rubbish, typical of the mainstream propaganda machine, but then I wouldn't expect anything else other than to serve their own, or a minority groups agenda.

Dunno where you hale from, but I've been paying into health insurance all my working life, so now it's payback time. Should it ever eventuate that I need health assistance, nobody will be giving me anything I haven't already paid for, as with my taxes. I've been looking after the establishment for quite some time, so if it ever gets to that stage the establishment can look after me. I care as much for the establishment as *IT* cares for me!

As I said, I've been smoking for quite some time and consequently have met a considerable number of other smokers, and in all those years I have not seen, nor heard, of *ONE* smoker who suffers from anything remotely like that depicted in those packet photos - and I've met a *LOT* of smokers over the years! The stats just don't add up!
Don't fret, no one is stopping you from smoking.
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Old 08-20-2012, 06:34 PM
 
Location: Southeast Asia
2,721 posts, read 1,225,199 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by koyaanisqatsi1 View Post
My grandmother is 88 years old now and she has been smoking since 16 and never gotten sick so...Alcohol should have more strict laws as it kills far more people than fags and I'm speaking from experience.
Alcohol also causes far more social/psychological problems than cigarettes. The anti-smoking brigade have always been a bit OTT, and arguably have set the wrong priorities.
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Old 08-21-2012, 04:47 AM
 
Location: Eastern Sydney, Australia
1,805 posts, read 1,309,425 times
Reputation: 1215
Quote:
Originally Posted by BCC_1 View Post
So what? Why does a single point of reference mean anything?

As for alcohol killing more people...

CDC - Fact Sheet - Tobacco-Related Mortality - Smoking & Tobacco Use



What freedom has been stripped away?

Those who protest will I assume ensure that they are able to pay for their own medical care if struck down by a smoking related disease? It's all well and good to say your rights are being taken away (although I'm dubious as to which ones), but then when you get sick expect the rest of us to foot your medical bill.
Just that when the vapid and bleating anti-smoking crowd is out in force, I use my grandmother's length of years of smoking as a reference to that smoking doesn't always kill and the silence from them is deafening . She, second oldest, comes from a family of 8 children, the oldest 4, including her, are smokers and alive, my grand-uncle turning 90 soon, followed by the next two who are 86 and 84 respectively and the youngest four who were not smokers died in their 60s and 70s. My great-grand father (their father) lived to the age of 98 and had smoked since he was 18.

Freedom of our choice is being slowly eroded away hence my reference to us becoming a "nanny state". If someone wants to smoke - that's entirely up to them - who are we to tell them what they can't and can't do and the anti-smoking "train" really does not have the right to ram "their "beliefs" down their throats. Frankly the anti-smoking brigade is going way over the top nowadays, they are manipulating statistics to get their agenda across which is disgusting in my eyes. Why is there not similar campaigns for cars and alcohol given those two do far more damage as well as killing a larger number of people.

As for medical bills - alcohol and car related incidents incur the highest amounts than smoking so don't try and tell me any different. You can't have one set of rules for drunk drivers/alcoholics and another for smokers. As far as I'm concerned, we all pay our fair share of tax towards Medicare so if it's ok for hospitals to treat alcoholics and drunk drivers then its ok for them to treat smokers - fair's fair.

By the way I work in the health sector involving people with drug, alcohol and HIV/AIDS issues and guess which group suffers the highest fatalities - alcoholics of course, followed by the former - with the youngest victim being just 21 due to kidney failure from drinking since the age of 14.
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