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This will be a bit of a long one for anyone truly interested.
There seems to be some misconceptions around immigration between Aus and NZ, with certain people blindly making assumptions and using the net difference as some kind of weapon trying to prove their agenda. We are currently seeing the largest amount of people ever move from Aus to NZ which might seem a tad odd without knowing exactly why, the Aus economy is far from horrific atm, the NZ economy is doing well but it will cool which is forecasted, economies cycles have happened before without a large increase of outflow from Australia, so something else is going on.
Historically around 14,000 (Aus Outflow) people move from Aus to NZ each year while around 35,000 people move from NZ to Aus (the difference is Aus net gain). The reason for peaks and troughs are largely economic fates of both countries, just people using the bilateral agreement "similar" to moving between cities in the same country. Reasons for moving in either direction vary greatly, everything from better job opportunities in Aus due to larger the economy, to change of scenery, family, quieter life in and lower cost of living in NZ, the list goes on, most of the movement is Kiwis but there are some Aussies using the agreement, it all ties in well with CER.
(This is the only graph I can find with the required info and appears accurate, but unfortunately not quite up to date that would show outflows and inflows pretty much cancelling each other out atm).
1# Note the increase in Kiwis leaving Aus Early 2013, easily record highs
2# Note the unexpected Mid ish 2010 to early 2013 spike in Kiwis coming to Aus
Most of the graph is explained with economic cycles except #2 where the NZ economy was clearly on the improve and there was strong mumblings of the Aus economy slowing, its the opposite of what we would expect and certainly you can see Kiwis moving to Aus coming off the peak prior in Early 2010, one would expect using economics alone peak #2 would not exist at all.
Key event in recent immigration pattern - Christchurch Earthquakes.
The mystery peak Aus inflow#2 starting September 2010 to late Early 2013 (remember how data points are plotted in the graph above) was of course the first Christchurch Earthquake that traumatised many around NZ.
The event that cause the highest peak EVER and the nasty quake swarm continued for 2 full years!. Now the Aussie media tended to utterly ignore this as a reason for the high number of Kiwis moving to Aus around that time choosing gaw dropping racist unbalanced garbage articles instead, I guess not wanting to generate any sympathy is the motive.
Only months after the CHCH February 2011 earthquake killing hundreds came the Queensland floods killing dozens. With the CHCH earthquakes there was no distinguishing of Aussies in Canterbury no one even thought about it, any help was simply given to all. The QLD government refused to initially offer help to permanent resident Kiwis in the QLD disaster zone (stating not citizens) which made big news back in NZ, you can probably imagine the thought process. This brought into the limelight the inequalities of the bilateral agreement and Kiwis living is Aus started to realise even though they may not care about welfare or even voting in Aus, we can't always control fate. One day you may need some help if you should happen to get hit by a bus (don't even get me started on NDIS), and god help you if you get laid off at age 62! with retirement now at 70!.
Some Kiwis like myself can, have and will obtain Aus citizenship not trusting the razor sharp edges on the Aus side bilateral agreement and gives the option of staying in either country, seems like a old idea, where have I heard that before :P.
Its the fading effects from the CHCH Earthquakes and the "realisation" the Bilateral Agreement is badly broken that is currently tipping the scales with the pros and cons of Aus, which imho is leading to record numbers of Kiwis returning home. I strongly suspect this could be a new phase of the immigration pattern between the two nations but only time can prove that.
Seems "technically" more people are now moving from Aus to NZ than vice versa, likely mostly Kiwis returning home, but I would think others using the bilateral agreement has increased also.
Probably lot of Kiwi's returning home with the end of the 'mining boom'.
That's some of it, but I doubt is the major factor, seems a cross section of people from IT to construction are returning. Something else is occurring imho
You can go back 20 years in the Aus unemployment rate, doesn't really correspond to that outflow, unemployment has been worse in the past.
That's some of it, but I doubt is the major factor, seems a cross section of people from IT to construction are returning. Something else is occurring imho
You can go back 20 years in the Aus unemployment rate, doesn't really correspond to that outflow, unemployment has been worse in the past.
According to this it's mostly people intelligible for the pension and HECS loans that that are leaving, I am not going to validate that theory, it certainly it makes sense however. Maybe that and the appreciating kiwi dollar, which would make Aussie Salaries look less generous, compared to those in NZ.
I don't see why HECS is such a problem, all Australian permanent residents who are not citizens are intelligible for it. To get a HECS/HELP loan my wife would have to become and Australian Citizen, and give up her Korean Citizenship (Korea's Rules not Ours).
According to this it's mostly people intelligible for the pension and HECS loans that that are leaving, I am not going to validate that theory, it certainly it makes sense however. Maybe that and the appreciating kiwi dollar, which would make Aussie Salaries look less generous, compared to those in NZ.
lol that's funny, I was at Varsity lakes today checking out a network issue and read that exact article in physical form while waiting!, what are the odds :P
I thought the article was mostly garbage, why would a Kiwi be ineligible for a pension btw?, the NZ government pays their pension at 65 for the portion of their life they spent in NZ, the Aus government picks up the time in Aus.
That business relies on Kiwi patronage not exactly a objective observation, likely trying to playing down the trend. From what I can subjectively tell its more "recent" arrivals returning home, not people that have been here 20 years with deep roots. I can't imagine many 65+ kiwis that have been in Aus 30 years with kids and grand kids returning home, seems unlikely.
To add in regards to the $NZ, its technically a lousy time to go home from a dollar conversion point of view, the $NZ usually sits a lot lower, not sure the appreciating $NZ really makes a huge difference in day to day costs in $NZ, so the $NZ being high is a opposing force when you think about it.
Last edited by Battleneter; 12-05-2014 at 03:27 AM..
lol that's funny, I was at Varsity lakes today checking out a network issue and read that exact article in physical form while waiting!, what are the odds :P
I thought the article was mostly garbage, that business relies on Kiwi patronage not exactly a objective observation, likely trying to playing down the trend. From what I can subjectively tell its more "recent" arrivals returning home, not people that have been here 20 years with deep roots.
I can't imagine many 65+ kiwis that have been in Aus 30 years with kids and grand kids returning home, seems unlikely.
To add in regards to the $NZ, its technically a lousy time to go home from a dollar conversion point of view, the $NZ usually sits a lot lower, not sure the appreciating $NZ really makes a huge difference in day to day costs in $NZ, so the $NZ being high is a opposing force when you think about it.
So what is your theory then? Certainly the Australian Economy is slowing, only a fool would deny that. Don't go on about people with agenda's against kiwi's either, those people are even more stupid and foolish.
Still I agree the Bilateral relationship is badly broken, you either have to give Kiwis the same rights as Aussies get in NZ, or scrap it all together and get both countries treating them exactly the same as any other immigrant.
Last edited by danielsa1775; 12-05-2014 at 03:52 AM..
So what is your theory then? A strong kiwi dollar would help keep New Zealanders in New Zealand.
Dam it caught editing!
Well honestly I think as my original long winded post, its a combination of feeling unwelcome and the inequalities with the 2001 bilateral agreement changes which got highlighted in 2011, excluding those of us on the SOL.
I don't want to appear overly dramatic, Australia is big enough to barely notice us all leaving!. I would suggest however Australia is being a really crappy big brother, or even a crappy friend, but that's for Australians to decide I guess.
I mean NZ helps 3rd world pacific Islands with 1/10 the Xenophobia Kiwis face in Australia, maybe its a competition thing, I haven't quiet worked it out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielsa1775
Still I agree the Bilateral relationship is badly broken, you either have to give Kiwis the same rights as Aussies get in NZ, or scrap it all together and get both countries treating them exactly the same as any other immigrant.
edit again
yea well I agree, its honestly better to end the bilateral agreement than continue with something causing issues, its just not sensible having a portion of the population with no pathway to democratic representation, Aus either want these people or not, it defiantly annoys me.
Last edited by Battleneter; 12-05-2014 at 04:21 AM..
Well honestly I think as my original long winded post, its a combination of feeling unwelcome and the inequalities with the 2001 bilateral agreement changes which got highlighted in 2011, excluding those of us on the SOL.
I don't want to appear overly dramatic, Australia is big enough to barely notice us all leaving!. I would suggest however Australia is being a really crappy big brother, or even a crappy friend, but that's for Australians to decide I guess.
I mean NZ helps 3rd world pacific Islands with 1/10 the Xenophobia Kiwis face in Australia, maybe its a competition thing, I haven't quiet worked it out.
edit again
yea well I agree, its honestly better to end the bilateral agreement than continue with something causing issues, its just not sensible having a portion of the population with no pathway to democratic representation, Aus either want these people or not, it defiantly annoys me.
Busted! I realized the answer to my own question was in your first post a bit late! Still what kind of people don't like kiwi immigrants? I would assume they are mostly the same people who don't like immigrants In general.
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