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Old 11-04-2016, 09:01 PM
 
Location: London, UK
2,719 posts, read 1,404,501 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danielsa1775 View Post
Yes Irene as soon as you used the word deary. I knew it was you. I thought you hated the UK.
No love, I'm a dude.

I have heard of this Irene character, seems to have made quite of an idiotic impression on every forum around but I have no clue who she is.

I'm a Londoner born in Paddington, raised in South London, parents are from the coffee region in Colombia, came over in the 70's and I love the UK.
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Old 11-04-2016, 11:27 PM
 
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
174 posts, read 106,054 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pueblofuerte View Post
Sorry deary are we five now with the "you started it" argument? In fact if you want to get bogged down in it, it was Paddy who raised the issue.



Well hold on a minute, I'm British, 2nd generation Colombian. We South Americans (heritage) number half a million in the UK and are seldom represented in Aus and NZ, whereas in the UK Colombians have been represented since the 70's, Chucho Merchan in the iconic 70's band the Eurythmics being one example.





People outside the UK really underestimate the long tradition of immigration the UK has had and the amount of iconic people and cultural expressions the UK has homegrown thanks to this.

.
Your missing my point, i'm not talking about modern Britain as Australia and New Zealand are no longer colonial subjects therefore Britain will no longer be controlling migration and it's culture. I'm talking about how New Zealand and Australia may and may not resemble the old British culture from which they were founded. Not modern Britain which is vastly different from the British culture a century ago
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Old 11-05-2016, 12:11 AM
 
985 posts, read 598,058 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paddy234 View Post
Your missing my point, i'm not talking about modern Britain as Australia and New Zealand are no longer colonial subjects therefore Britain will no longer be controlling migration and it's culture.
Britain never controlled its Australian colonies as tightly as they did North America. The Americans had to fight a revolution for basic political rights, but what were to become the Australian states were all self governing from the mid 1800s, setting their own immigration arrangements and even maintaining their own armed forces.

One of the ironies of Australian history is that within a few decades of their founding, former British penal colonies became far more democratic, open and prosperous than Britain itself. The gold rushes of the mid 1800s made cities like Melbourne some of the wealthiest in the world. And from that time they were governed in accordance with written constitutions by elected legislatures, which Britain doesn't fully have even in 2016.
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Old 11-05-2016, 05:21 AM
 
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
174 posts, read 106,054 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bakery Hill View Post
Britain never controlled its Australian colonies as tightly as they did North America. The Americans had to fight a revolution for basic political rights, but what were to become the Australian states were all self governing from the mid 1800s, setting their own immigration arrangements and even maintaining their own armed forces.

One of the ironies of Australian history is that within a few decades of their founding, former British penal colonies became far more democratic, open and prosperous than Britain itself. The gold rushes of the mid 1800s made cities like Melbourne some of the wealthiest in the world. And from that time they were governed in accordance with written constitutions by elected legislatures, which Britain doesn't fully have even in 2016.
Yes i agree but Australia and New Zealand institutions were modeled to resemble British institutions and due to migration mainly from Britain early Australian and New Zealand culture was fairly similar to British culture and customs. Britain never had as much interest in these two countries and i believe distance to be one of the main factors. They probably knew eventually these nations would want independence and would fight for it if it had to, fighting a war that far from home would be extremely exhausting, i think though they underestimated loyalty in Australia and New Zealand compared to the United States. These two nations are very much proud of their British heritage whereas the US created a new identity trying to eliminate any resemblance to Britain and the old world. At the end of the day though the United states was colonized far earlier and i believe started to develop a separate identity from the late 18th century. This is starting to happen across Australia and New Zealand and will be set in stone officially when they create a unique flag and have their own head of state
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Old 11-05-2016, 03:45 PM
 
121 posts, read 93,715 times
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[quote=danielsa1775;46057753]
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Originally Posted by Longaotian View Post

Both countries are also less white than the UK, and in Australia's case nearly twice as likely to speak a primary language that is not English.
Nobody uses the concept of being "white" in Europe.
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Old 11-05-2016, 05:48 PM
 
Location: Brisbane
3,420 posts, read 5,317,777 times
Reputation: 2726
[quote=CliffofDover;46074376]
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielsa1775 View Post

Nobody uses the concept of being "white" in Europe.
LOL This is an american website, and I have been canned many of times on this forum for suggesting race does not equal diversity.

FYI the government of Australia does not collect racial statistics as part of the Australian census while the British government does.

Last edited by danielsa1775; 11-05-2016 at 06:05 PM..
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Old 11-06-2016, 01:26 AM
 
985 posts, read 598,058 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paddy234 View Post
This is starting to happen across Australia and New Zealand and will be set in stone officially when they create a unique flag and have their own head of state
In Australia, its started in the mid 1800s. Thats why our system of government, quite unlike New Zealand’s, has so many US inspire elements in addition to uniquely Australian aspects.

In terms of the national psyche, it was also very apparent during the conscription debates of WW1. Supporters of conscription included those who were pro British Empire and who very much identified with Britain. Those opposing included many who were not only against Australia’s participation in the war, but also hostile to Britain itself. The anti conscription side won the day. PM Hughes called another referendum shorty after that was voted down by an even larger majority, and he was later expelled from the Labor Party. It was a very bitter and divisive period in Australian politics, but historically fascinating.
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Old 11-06-2016, 02:14 PM
 
6,990 posts, read 7,732,346 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paddy234 View Post
I definitely agree with Australia being more fiercely nationalistic than New Zealand. Australia was also used as a punishment island for political dissidents especially us Irish who demanded independence, the British seen it working in two ways, one being that they were sent to the opposite side of the world too far to influence their homeland and second being used as slaves for economic gain. British and Irish were suspicious of each other in those days mainly because of religious differences. Ironically the nations that Britain set up to be bastions of Protestantism are now overwhelmingly Catholic such as the US, OZ and NZ. New Zealand had a much softer history with Britain and looking at world war one commemorations kiwis seem to be some of the few who were actually proud of serving motherland Britain. It's something i'll never understand. Lets not forgot though didn't Australia reject removing the queen as their head of state? I'd say that both nations still hold on to their colonial past until they create a truly independent flag and have a head of state that is actually a citizen on their country. This will come in time

As i said before though i definitely feel the South Island feels more British than the North Island and Australia due to the fact that most of the migration is either to OZ or the North Island so the south Island is changing at a slower pace still showing a hint of resemblance from it's British colonial past. As migration increases here which it is now starting to that resemblence will fade away
the usa , australia and new zealand are still predominantly protestant ( at least nominally ) , new zealand being the lease catholic of the three
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Old 11-06-2016, 02:19 PM
 
6,990 posts, read 7,732,346 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paddy234 View Post
I mean in terms of Christianity Catholicism is by far the most dominant in those nations. Anglicans is the second largest in OZ and NZ i believe. If you include Anglicans in with protestants then that number might change in OZ and NZ
well of course you include anglicanism when counting the protestant percentage , new zealand is less than 15% catholic , the usa about 30% catholic and australia the same , canada has marginally more catholics but is still culturally a protestant country

both australia and new zealand ( especially ) are culturally protestant nations

and in case someone wonders what i mean , even renowned atheist richard dawkins regards himself a culturally anglican
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Old 11-06-2016, 02:25 PM
 
6,990 posts, read 7,732,346 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bakery Hill View Post
Britain never controlled its Australian colonies as tightly as they did North America. The Americans had to fight a revolution for basic political rights, but what were to become the Australian states were all self governing from the mid 1800s, setting their own immigration arrangements and even maintaining their own armed forces.

One of the ironies of Australian history is that within a few decades of their founding, former British penal colonies became far more democratic, open and prosperous than Britain itself. The gold rushes of the mid 1800s made cities like Melbourne some of the wealthiest in the world. And from that time they were governed in accordance with written constitutions by elected legislatures, which Britain doesn't fully have even in 2016.
the australian and new zealand population were happily compliant subjects from the start , they were all but english provinces with better weather until after WW2 , not that surprising considering how young those nations are and the lack of diversity until post WW2

australia has only become a seriously wealthy country since the early nineties in terms of income per capita , it was behind most of western europe prior to this and considerably behind the usa and canada

ive uncles in australia since the late fifties and canada since the sixties , wages were much higher in canada back then , you didnt go to australia to make a fortune , you went to america
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