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I can certainly see the weather attraction. But is Australia really a richer country? It is not a member of the G 8 or whatever the number is these days.
I accept that the minimum wage, is what I believe, the second highest in the world, but costs are considerable. What happened to the Vancouver(Toronto too I believe, housing market was repeated in the Sydney/Melbourne housing markets especially but all others impacted as well. With the expected repercussions in both in various stages of unravelling.
I would rather enjoy the bilingual nature of Canada, or such I restate that and say the Quebec Provence locality of Canada, being a Francophone. We don't have such options in Australia of such choice diversity.
But rather personal and not a concern I expect for most Anglo Canadians.
The Australian character. I am interested what that really is and what side of the 'personality' stands out in your opinion that wind appraise. I'm not saying I don't like it, just somewhat hard to find.
To me a bit like if a fellow is called Jasper wearing his hair in a men's bob and more likely to have a social conscious of sorts at least in areas where it is cool to be so, or Jezza or Macca or Thomo , somewhat rough around the edges without likely having a great deal to say.
A very common theme I keep hearing from migrants is the feeling of loneliness and difficulties in connecting with Australians whom are for most intents and purposes rather 'home' inclined people at the end of the day.
We all have our 'favourite places' hope Australia works out for you.
Australia is a richer country per capita than Canada especially on a nominal basis and the only reason why it's not in the G-7 is because the economy isn't large large enough. It's the same reason why Switzerland is not part of the G-7.
Yes, real estate is a problem in Australia's large centres (Sydney and Melbourne) just as it is in Canada's (Toronto and Vancouver) but there are plenty of great smaller cities to live in Australia like Townsville or Darwin that would appeal to me. Canada has smaller cities too of course but the climate to me is not very hospitable at all. I lived in a cold and snowy climate for quite some time and really did not like it one bit.
The bilingual nature is unique about Canada and while I do speak French, it is not a high priority for me. For others who want to live in a French speaking environment and can support themselves financially, Montreal is a great city.
In terms of the Australian character, I found people there to be direct and say it like it is which I like. I also like the fact that Aussies are very well travelled on the whole and can have interesting conversations with them. A lot of people here in Canada aren't likely to travel to places outside of the US and a few other sunshine destinations in winter. Aussies are also generally very active people and it seems like most people participate in some kind of sport or at least did as kids. When I visited Australia a number of years ago now, I had no problem connecting with locals and did not really feel lonely. I definitely plan on returning again one day when I am able to
I think you find that immigrants in most countries find it hard to connect with the locals, as do even locals moving to new locations. That is why you get so many immigrant enclaves in most countries. I agree the Aussies are somewhat home lovers, where we do not roam around as they do inneg Italy on the nightly stroll.
We often make friends through our kids when they are young. It is a gradual process, even for us, where you work at turning acquaintances into friends.
My European in-laws never had nor looked for Australian friends as their English was never much past the functional part. They were less than impressed when I came on the scene. But my husband, who is technically an immigrant albeit was a child immigrant, has a completely varied collection of friends pretty much in line with the ethnic makeup of the city. Australian, English, Greek, German, Vietnamese, Chinese, Italian, Pakistani, etc.
Australians, if one must generalise, share some personality characteristics with our British majority ancestors. There is a taboo on discussing certain aspects of finances which can be quite tricky in its complexities. I have travelled a lot, as have many of us, and I would say that we are overall quite helpful, friendly and as is said above, know a fair bit about the world. We expect a certain degree of fairness as they do in the U.K. And expect people to take turns, queue etc.
Americans, I find are often friendly but as they have often only the most basic knowledge of other countries, it inhibits small talk somewhat.
Australia is a richer country per capita than Canada especially on a nominal basis and the only reason why it's not in the G-7 is because the economy isn't large large enough. It's the same reason why Switzerland is not part of the G-7.
Yes, real estate is a problem in Australia's large centres (Sydney and Melbourne) just as it is in Canada's (Toronto and Vancouver) but there are plenty of great smaller cities to live in Australia like Townsville or Darwin that would appeal to me. Canada has smaller cities too of course but the climate to me is not very hospitable at all. I lived in a cold and snowy climate for quite some time and really did not like it one bit.
The bilingual nature is unique about Canada and while I do speak French, it is not a high priority for me. For others who want to live in a French speaking environment and can support themselves financially, Montreal is a great city.
In terms of the Australian character, I found people there to be direct and say it like it is which I like. I also like the fact that Aussies are very well travelled on the whole and can have interesting conversations with them. A lot of people here in Canada aren't likely to travel to places outside of the US and a few other sunshine destinations in winter. Aussies are also generally very active people and it seems like most people participate in some kind of sport or at least did as kids. When I visited Australia a number of years ago now, I had no problem connecting with locals and did not really feel lonely. I definitely plan on returning again one day when I am able to
Well Singapore will soon pass Australia its been suggested so not sure what that suggests. Not even sure with regards the significance of GDP if as is happening in Australia inequality is increasingly growing.
No I'm afraid real estate is expensive most everywhere you would probably decide a decent place to live. Out of interest why did you pick Darwin as an example. Most expensive city in Australia for living, with the highest per cent rent market, high crime rates (NT is murder capital state of OZ)
Not saying it doesn't have its attractions, I lived there last century and generally 'loved it' , probably for being so different from the rest of Australia, in character and frontier type feel.
Still there's a reason so many houses maintain, rather large dogs up there, crime is a serious issue.
It has a very young population, as many drift away after a certain age for varied reasons. Interesting place, probably more so for tourists, but cheap it is not.
Townsville, another place you mention, is not the sort of city 'outsiders 'often tend to stay in too long in. If small town Australia is 'cheap' in real estate value, it is usually for a reason. Undesirability. Simple as that. No or few jobs. High crime rates or too remote.
Aussies are certainly 'well travelled" if worldly though, well another matter. Parochialism being a rather strong feature here and only limited interest in what is happening outside in the main.
The 'directness' is probably over stated. PC, while not quite on Canadian lines, is a strong feature, but far worse are the abundance of rules and regulations.
Contrary to the often held belief that Aussies are some what anti authority, this remains probably the most conformist nation, I've lived in outside of Asia.
Aussies are not as 'outgoing' either as some may think, in broad terms. It can be indeed 'very difficult' to form friendships here, even for Aussies. I'm not sure if I've met so many 'loners' before either.
There is a difference between 'being friendly' can friendship of course. A tourist perspective will likely vary from a longer term resident as well, especially once the 'honey moon' stage has passed.
I would say 'connecting' without the 'crutch' of some 'akin interest', be that bridge, sailing, hockey a book club or similar.
Active yes. Many attend fitness centres a lot of emphasis on looking good, staying young, California style attributes, some may suggest.
I think you find that immigrants in most countries find it hard to connect with the locals, as do even locals moving to new locations. That is why you get so many immigrant enclaves in most countries. I agree the Aussies are somewhat home lovers, where we do not roam around as they do inneg Italy on the nightly stroll.
We often make friends through our kids when they are young. It is a gradual process, even for us, where you work at turning acquaintances into friends.
My European in-laws never had nor looked for Australian friends as their English was never much past the functional part. They were less than impressed when I came on the scene. But my husband, who is technically an immigrant albeit was a child immigrant, has a completely varied collection of friends pretty much in line with the ethnic makeup of the city. Australian, English, Greek, German, Vietnamese, Chinese, Italian, Pakistani, etc.
Australians, if one must generalise, share some personality characteristics with our British majority ancestors. There is a taboo on discussing certain aspects of finances which can be quite tricky in its complexities. I have travelled a lot, as have many of us, and I would say that we are overall quite helpful, friendly and as is said above, know a fair bit about the world. We expect a certain degree of fairness as they do in the U.K. And expect people to take turns, queue etc.
Americans, I find are often friendly but as they have often only the most basic knowledge of other countries, it inhibits small talk somewhat.
Yes being an immigrant to other countries, or ex pat in some eyes, what you say is correct.
I guess the Aussie home obsession comes from the English identity of home as being 'An Englishman's home is his castle.' Still a bit odd, in such a climate, staying at home not so say going to bed so early, features so strongly in the culture.
A bit of a shock to Europeans and Asians though along with the 'void' with so few people on the streets, is something many take years, if ever to get used to.
Indeed the solitude of Perth suburban life has been in part responsible for a considerable number moving out over the years I've lived here. Some remained in Australia, but moved to Melbourne and in cases to Sydney. In turn I've met others that moved from Sydney to Perth to escape prohibitive housing costs. Although it was only a few years ago Perth was excessively high as well.
I find people from 'more inclusive' societies with a strong emphasis on social life fare rather badly. Middle Eastern folk find it very hard from my experience.
I suspect the too often cited comment from even English migrants, that regardless of the number f years, they have resided in Australia, the formation of Aussie friendships, proves to be a near impossibility. That's not to say other countries are easy, just that Australia is not the laid back , welcoming country of some folks perceptions, perhaps from shoer holiday visits or from the grape vine.
Yes being an immigrant to other countries, or ex pat in some eyes, what you say is correct.
I guess the Aussie home obsession comes from the English identity of home as being 'An Englishman's home is his castle.' Still a bit odd, in such a climate, staying at home not so say going to bed so early, features so strongly in the culture.
A bit of a shock to Europeans and Asians though along with the 'void' with so few people on the streets, is something many take years, if ever to get used to.
Indeed the solitude of Perth suburban life has been in part responsible for a considerable number moving out over the years I've lived here. Some remained in Australia, but moved to Melbourne and in cases to Sydney. In turn I've met others that moved from Sydney to Perth to escape prohibitive housing costs. Although it was only a few years ago Perth was excessively high as well.
I find people from 'more inclusive' societies with a strong emphasis on social life fare rather badly. Middle Eastern folk find it very hard from my experience.
I suspect the too often cited comment from even English migrants, that regardless of the number of years, they have resided in Australia, the formation of Aussie friendships, proves to be a near impossibility. That's not to say other countries are easy, just that Australia is not the laid back , welcoming country of some folks perceptions, perhaps from shoer holiday visits or from the grape vine.
You see so many forums threads on many internet sites about how to make friends. When my kids lived in England most of their friends were Aussie and they did not even have a language barrier. It can be tough making friends, especially for introverts. The people I know with the most friends are joiners, they are members of churches, service organisations, they are some of the few that bother to go to parent groups at the school. They are in the committees for sports clubs and when they retire they join the probus.
I think in places like Dubai where there are so many expats it is different as everyone is looking to make friends. Not being Asian I am not sure how friends are made there or indeed in Europe. Perhaps extended families and neighbours are more important.
We have the British emphasis on privacy here, which tends to preclude being overly friendly with neighbours. It has also become the etiquette to virtually never call in to see people unannounced. Gosh these days I often feel compelled to text someone to see if I can make a phone call.
Anyway, if as people say, the economy is going under and the social environment is hostile, the over population problem will solve itself as no one will want to join us!
You see so many forums threads on many internet sites about how to make friends. When my kids lived in England most of their friends were Aussie and they did not even have a language barrier. It can be tough making friends, especially for introverts. The people I know with the most friends are joiners, they are members of churches, service organisations, they are some of the few that bother to go to parent groups at the school. They are in the committees for sports clubs and when they retire they join the probus.
I think in places like Dubai where there are so many expats it is different as everyone is looking to make friends. Not being Asian I am not sure how friends are made there or indeed in Europe. Perhaps extended families and neighbours are more important.
We have the British emphasis on privacy here, which tends to preclude being overly friendly with neighbours. It has also become the etiquette to virtually never call in to see people unannounced. Gosh these days I often feel compelled to text someone to see if I can make a phone call.
Anyway, if as people say, the economy is going under and the social environment is hostile, the over population problem will solve itself as no one will want to join us!
A bit sad if one resorts to internet threads in order to 'learn' how to make friends. Less social media may well be a good starter point. But I digress.
So when you lived in England most your kid's friends were Aussie. Can that be? Are there so many Aussie kids in England? Not sure if I ever met one, that at least wasn't on holiday with parents. I wonder where they are all holding out?
I agree, unlike France, English/Aussies are far more joiners. It at least makes a connection, with only through the 'shared interest'.
I'm not sure only I introverts, as by their nature, friendship may not be held up as a priority listing to things of importance within their lives.
Extroverts, on the other hand, especially in the English context, often do find connection hard, with the humour differing, Aussies not so 'talkative' in general more emphasis on home life, as less on pubs and going out and what have you.
Not phoning after eight PM many find a very odd thing.
Aussies do behave a little differently when away often, which may add to the confusion of behaviour at home.
I agree transplanted ex pat communities, be it in UAE or often elsewhere, do make more time for one another and possibly a reason some prefer the ex pat life.
AS for no one wanting to come to Australia, it should be remembered, Australia does these days sell itself rather well. For everyone ready to bail out, likely ten replacements ready to follow suit, if can get a visa.
Even on minimum waqes , some recent immigrants appear to find conditions preferable to home. Whether to the benefit of those already here, probably somewhat debateable.
I think you will note an ever increasing number of Australian born leaving for other shores. America is quite possible with certain professions.
The 'hostile' social environment will likely be taken care by the increasing of ethnic enclaves, already clearly in evidence.
Well Singapore will soon pass Australia its been suggested so not sure what that suggests. Not even sure with regards the significance of GDP if as is happening in Australia inequality is increasingly growing.
No I'm afraid real estate is expensive most everywhere you would probably decide a decent place to live. Out of interest why did you pick Darwin as an example. Most expensive city in Australia for living, with the highest per cent rent market, high crime rates (NT is murder capital state of OZ)
Not saying it doesn't have its attractions, I lived there last century and generally 'loved it' , probably for being so different from the rest of Australia, in character and frontier type feel.
Still there's a reason so many houses maintain, rather large dogs up there, crime is a serious issue.
It has a very young population, as many drift away after a certain age for varied reasons. Interesting place, probably more so for tourists, but cheap it is not.
Townsville, another place you mention, is not the sort of city 'outsiders 'often tend to stay in too long in. If small town Australia is 'cheap' in real estate value, it is usually for a reason. Undesirability. Simple as that. No or few jobs. High crime rates or too remote.
Aussies are certainly 'well travelled" if worldly though, well another matter. Parochialism being a rather strong feature here and only limited interest in what is happening outside in the main.
The 'directness' is probably over stated. PC, while not quite on Canadian lines, is a strong feature, but far worse are the abundance of rules and regulations.
Contrary to the often held belief that Aussies are some what anti authority, this remains probably the most conformist nation, I've lived in outside of Asia.
Aussies are not as 'outgoing' either as some may think, in broad terms. It can be indeed 'very difficult' to form friendships here, even for Aussies. I'm not sure if I've met so many 'loners' before either.
There is a difference between 'being friendly' can friendship of course. A tourist perspective will likely vary from a longer term resident as well, especially once the 'honey moon' stage has passed.
I would say 'connecting' without the 'crutch' of some 'akin interest', be that bridge, sailing, hockey a book club or similar.
Active yes. Many attend fitness centres a lot of emphasis on looking good, staying young, California style attributes, some may suggest.
Thanks for this interesting info. Unfortunately inequality is growing and prices are increasing around the world putting a squeeze on the middle class and I am sure Australia is no exception but Australia is definitely among the best if not the best in the world in most metrics. I never said that Australia was perfect but is the best the world has to offer IMO. Of course everyone is different and for some Australia would not be the ideal choice. I started this thread to gauge how much people like the land down under and if people like it as much as I do.
Because if spiders? Huntsmen spiders are not dangerous.
Everywhere has its dangers. We were just in the US. We came across a bear in Yellowstone wandering down the street. We walked past Tenderloin in SanFrancisco to get to the Civic Centre. We survived the twelve lane interstates with everyone travelling at over 100 mph.
A little spider, or a big one for that matter, is nothing to worry about in comparison.
A bit sad if one resorts to internet threads in order to 'learn' how to make friends. Less social media may well be a good starter point. But I digress.
So when you lived in England most your kid's friends were Aussie. Can that be? Are there so many Aussie kids in England? Not sure if I ever met one, that at least wasn't on holiday with parents. I wonder where they are all holding out?
I agree, unlike France, English/Aussies are far more joiners. It at least makes a connection, with only through the 'shared interest'.
I'm not sure only I introverts, as by their nature, friendship may not be held up as a priority listing to things of importance within their lives.
Extroverts, on the other hand, especially in the English context, often do find connection hard, with the humour differing, Aussies not so 'talkative' in general more emphasis on home life, as less on pubs and going out and what have you.
Not phoning after eight PM many find a very odd thing.
Aussies do behave a little differently when away often, which may add to the confusion of behaviour at home.
I agree transplanted ex pat communities, be it in UAE or often elsewhere, do make more time for one another and possibly a reason some prefer the ex pat life.
AS for no one wanting to come to Australia, it should be remembered, Australia does these days sell itself rather well. For everyone ready to bail out, likely ten replacements ready to follow suit, if can get a visa.
Even on minimum waqes , some recent immigrants appear to find conditions preferable to home. Whether to the benefit of those already here, probably somewhat debateable.
I think you will note an ever increasing number of Australian born leaving for other shores. America is quite possible with certain professions.
The 'hostile' social environment will likely be taken care by the increasing of ethnic enclaves, already clearly in evidence.
My kids went to England as many people do, after they had finished uni. They chased up people they knew who were usually Aussie. The friends of these people were usually Aussie. The only close friends they made who were English have immigrated here and incidentally, love it.
I have never heard of people here wanting to move to the US, but that may be only in the circles I move in. My kids worked in a ski resort in Colorado while they were studying. They moved to the UK primarily for the travel opportunities to Europe. You do not have that opportunity with the amount of leave that most people get in the US. My friends daughter married an American and they now live happily in Melbourne!
Anyway, each to their own. The only country I would have liked to have lived for a while is England.
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