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Old 12-13-2018, 02:25 PM
 
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Australia AFAIK (I lived in OZ for 3 years) has one of the best immigration systems in the world, the country is proud of it and rightly so.
Illegals, if found, are usually dealt with quickly and efficiently, there is no automatic amnesty, many loopholes, "dreamers" debate, etc...
If you get caught, you are put in a detention center until your status is clarified (and expelled if you have no legal standing to stay).
Most importantly, immigration is not a partisan issue in Australia, the current system is supported pretty much across the entire political spectrum....am I correct??

So what do Australians think of the current political issue about immigration in the US?? On the Democratic side, some actually call for the elimination of immigration control, in many states is illegal for law enforcement agencies (other than immigration control) to ask for your legal status, illegals can get driver licenses, can go to schools, etc...

Not to mention the fact that anybody that is born in the US is automatically (Jus soli) an American citizen (same for Canada) with a lot of people, including wealthy Asians coming travelling the US only for the purpose of giving birth in America (there is an entire cottage industry dedicated to helping people doing so) where in Australia one of your parents has to be at least a permanent resident (since 1986 is I'm not mistaken).

In contrast with Australia, weak immigration enforcement has long been a bipartisan supported practice.....as a famous TV anchor said, Republicans wanted the cheap labor, Democrats wanted the votes (of former illegals when they finally find the path to legalization) and both of them enjoyed low cost gardening, food and construction services LOL

So what is our Australian friends take on the current immigration madness on the right side of the Pacific??
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Old 12-13-2018, 05:21 PM
 
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Well no there isn't quite partisan agreement with all political parties on detention of asylum seekers. The Greens do not support it and more voices are being raised into the cruelty inflicted by the system .


Immigration is something else. Australia has been taking record numbers of people over the past decade, which has caused quite a lot of comment on all sides.
Business, of course is in favour of turbo immigration, while falling living standards, caused by stagnant wages, eye watering high house prices, crowded roads and public transport has resulted in growing public concern.


As for what Australians think of American take on migration, probably don't think much, with own issues a plenty. Generally though, I would say American politics, are not held in high esteem at the moment by most except perhaps from the right.
Having land borders with far poorer countries, I think most thinking Australians will be aware of the 'pull factor' and need for some controls.
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Old 12-13-2018, 10:11 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the troubadour View Post
The Greens do not support it and more voices are being raised into the cruelty inflicted by the system .
the Greens are still an almost insignificant political force (according to current parliament composition)


Quote:
Having land borders with far poorer countries, I think most thinking Australians will be aware of the 'pull factor' and need for some controls.
Where Australia doe not have a land border, its maritime boundaries up north are not that difficult to cross and there are a lot of poor countries past that relatively easy body of water....
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Old 12-13-2018, 11:08 PM
 
Location: Brisbane
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Originally Posted by saturno_v View Post
the Greens are still an almost insignificant political force (according to current parliament composition)
...
They do hold 9 of the 76 Senate seats, which is enough for them to exert significant power at that level.
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Old 12-14-2018, 02:13 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saturno_v View Post
the Greens are still an almost insignificant political force (according to current parliament composition)




Where Australia doe not have a land border, its maritime boundaries up north are not that difficult to cross and there are a lot of poor countries past that relatively easy body of water....
The Greens are the third party in Australia and as such are something. Australia does not attract a flow of poor people escaping poverty and crime from its near neighbours. America does. Big difference.
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Old 12-14-2018, 01:29 PM
 
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Originally Posted by the troubadour View Post
The Greens are the third party in Australia and as such are something. Australia does not attract a flow of poor people escaping poverty and crime from its near neighbours. America does. Big difference.
If I remember correctly, Australia does attract poor people from Asia.....absolutely so...
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Old 12-14-2018, 02:40 PM
 
Location: Brisbane
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saturno_v View Post
If I remember correctly, Australia does attract poor people from Asia.....absolutely so...
I would imagine they would mostly be refugees (People fleeing wars, and picked up from UN refugee camps in neighboring countries, Syrians in Turkey, would be a current major one). Or the spouse/parent of a person who was able to obtain full PR by way of skilled migration.

Of course anyone can become poor given negative circumstances.

The total lack of migration from Indonesia to Australia has really got me baffled. We have them of course. However as the 7th most common source country for migrants from East Asia, its totally out of sync with the size and population of the country, we have twice as many Malaysians than Indonesians. I could well be that the people of Indonesia just have no desire to immigrate to another country?

Back to the greens, while they only have 1 lower house seat at the moment, they still get 20-25% of the vote in a lot of inner city federal electorates. Which is not quite enough to get them voted in, however, it is enough for the major parties to know they have a large influence, and a further shift in sentiment could see them both loose a lot of seats. Even here in Brisbane ("the Bogan capital of Australia") we have three federal seats like that, one of which I live in.

I know next to nothing about US immigration policy, so are not really able to comment in that regard.

Last edited by danielsa1775; 12-14-2018 at 02:56 PM..
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Old 12-14-2018, 03:36 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saturno_v View Post
If I remember correctly, Australia does attract poor people from Asia.....absolutely so...
Your memory is somewhat faulty. While Asians, are by far, the largest number of entrants, they include the best educated (Indians) and wealthiest (Chinese) Where the poorer minority ones are would be refugees and asylum seekers. A very different proposition from the States and poor Latino's.


There are numerous with qualifications working well beneath their education status as bus drivers, taxi drivers, (especially Indian Sub Continent) Others brought in under working visa's to work in construction (Chinese and Korean) hospitality and trades (Philippines ) I suppose those are 'poor' but generally Asian migrants are middle class. Absolutely so.......
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Old 12-14-2018, 03:49 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danielsa1775 View Post
I would imagine they would mostly be refugees (People fleeing wars, and picked up from UN refugee camps in neighboring countries, Syrians in Turkey, would be a current major one). Or the spouse/parent of a person who was able to obtain full PR by way of skilled migration.

Of course anyone can become poor given negative circumstances.

The total lack of migration from Indonesia to Australia has really got me baffled. We have them of course. However as the 7th most common source country for migrants from East Asia, its totally out of sync with the size and population of the country, we have twice as many Malaysians than Indonesians. I could well be that the people of Indonesia just have no desire to immigrate to another country?

Back to the greens, while they only have 1 lower house seat at the moment, they still get 20-25% of the vote in a lot of inner city federal electorates. Which is not quite enough to get them voted in, however, it is enough for the major parties to know they have a large influence, and a further shift in sentiment could see them both loose a lot of seats. Even here in Brisbane ("the Bogan capital of Australia") we have three federal seats like that, one of which I live in.

I know next to nothing about US immigration policy, so are not really able to comment in that regard.
Indonesians are most visible in Darwin in the Australian context. I recall a jump in numbers towards late 90's among Indonesians of Chinese background after rioting and attacks on that community in Jakarta.


But true enough, Indonesians are well below the number one may expect, being such a close neighbour. Yet those from Philippines have climbed the ladder to around sixth largest number and are found everywhere, rather evident in some smaller cities and rural locations as well.
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Old 12-14-2018, 08:05 PM
 
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Originally Posted by the troubadour View Post
Your memory is somewhat faulty. While Asians, are by far, the largest number of entrants, they include the best educated (Indians) and wealthiest (Chinese) Where the poorer minority ones are would be refugees and asylum seekers. A very different proposition from the States and poor Latino's.


There are numerous with qualifications working well beneath their education status as bus drivers, taxi drivers, (especially Indian Sub Continent) Others brought in under working visa's to work in construction (Chinese and Korean) hospitality and trades (Philippines ) I suppose those are 'poor' but generally Asian migrants are middle class. Absolutely so.......

I think we are getting off-track here.....the US has a huge legal immigration intake as well, middle class educated (and mostly company sponsored, we do not have a point based system) people from Asia, India,, Europe and even Latin America not to mention the investor class.

My question was what Australians think of the current immigration debate in the us and the fact that our immigration system appear to be more lax or "soft" compared to Australia with a lot of loopholes and the opportunities to fly under the radar...it was not a debate about the different geographic position of the two countries and/or the socio-economic status of their neighbors.


By the way, I remember vividly many "students" from the Phillippines, China and other Asian countries trying all they could to stay legally in Australia and I met quite few illegals working in the service industry (food, construction, etc...) and doing farm work.
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