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Old 01-09-2019, 05:04 PM
 
2,239 posts, read 3,043,775 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe90 View Post
None of this relevant -different conversation.

Your anecdote needs some specifics

Take Australia out of the equation, and the numbers don't seem that amazing, 150000 perhaps -a lot of those doing an O.E, plenty of new immigrants with a foot in other countries. I've lived in four different countries for longer than 6 months, which supposedly qualifies as living overseas.

There's certainly no sense of some mass exodus or non stop farewell parties




Wasn't just hippies back in the day, it was the forming underclass, getting schooled in dependency.

Housing is inflated due to high land prices and not enough new houses [over regulation], and immigration has become an industry, but that doesn't justify working capable people sitting around waiting for others to to subsidise their lives.



Timber framed houses, with lightweight cladding, and roofs, are exactly the sort of houses NZ needs. Expensive window latches, or the last fashionable tap wear mean nothing.

I think we should actually be regressing a little in our housing standards.


No the Irish equation is rather adequate example, of the only other western country where a very large number of its population have migrated for principally economic reasons.
No living more than six months says nothing other than you've had 'time out' from your country. This is an Aussie/Kiwi right of passage. Nothing to do with emigration (usually) and a lot to do with the tyranny of distance. Both countries being remote and rather isolated.
The census figures are a better indicator of long term movement.
Quite simple, a low paid, expensive economy, will ensure a flow of population outwards. This has not been any recent occurrence, but one that has picked up over time. Certainly since declining living standards, when NZ embraced neo liberalism under Rogeromics.
Yes Kiwi's left prior to that, but more the young heading to London or Bondi as part of the ritual. A quick look at NZ born population figures from census in the 70's will confirm the growth over the coming decades of NZ emigrants to Australia.


Houses like Australia are inflated due to lax borrowing from financial institutions, foreign investors having easy access, high immigration rates for starters.
NZ houses should be constructed more to suit the climate. It gets cold there. It is not some tropical South Sea Island with swaying palms.
Even UK migrants complain about NZ housing quality. High priced for such poor quality. You could do worse than go and take a look at the quality craftsmanship found in German houses, as an example. Compare their countryside construction with NZ's. You are being fastidious at best, if thinking only expensive window latches.
Folk will not accept a poor quality build. People speak out in Europe more. Obviously nothing is perfect and am fully aware of examples not compliant in this, but the scenario I'm thinking off was disclosed and the city administration was involved.
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Old 01-09-2019, 05:11 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irish_bob View Post
The French are deeply statist in outlook and philosophy, I don't agree but each to their own, the French reject the Anglo American model
Detest it intensely. Attempts by neo liberals to introduce 'foreign models' like the market being the saviour, has rightly been giving short shift in countries like France.
A former German leader of late last century, said we do not want the Anglo Saxon model in our country.


Always good countries where people still matter to some extent, above ideology.
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Old 01-09-2019, 08:15 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irish_bob View Post
The French are deeply statist in outlook and philosophy, I don't agree but each to their own, the French reject the Anglo American model
They sure are. Much to their own detriment. Each to their own though!
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Old 01-09-2019, 11:43 PM
 
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Originally Posted by BCC_1 View Post
They sure are. Much to their own detriment. Each to their own though!
Each to their own in the Anglo world perhaps, hence the divisions and the divide and rule, the French tend to fight stand their ground and defend their rights and liberties. Hence the encroachment of the Anglo Saxon flawed model has been kept to a large extent at bay.
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Old 01-10-2019, 12:19 AM
 
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Originally Posted by the troubadour View Post
Each to their own in the Anglo world perhaps, hence the divisions and the divide and rule, the French tend to fight stand their ground and defend their rights and liberties. Hence the encroachment of the Anglo Saxon flawed model has been kept to a large extent at bay.
Yeah France is the model of social harmony, as long you're white and Christian.

Social mobility is woeful in France, on a similar level to the US.
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Old 01-10-2019, 02:55 AM
 
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Originally Posted by BCC_1 View Post
Yeah France is the model of social harmony, as long you're white and Christian.

Social mobility is woeful in France, on a similar level to the US.

While Australia is not a model of social mobility if you are indigenous Australian, (equal or worse, although different to many of the French 'ring cities' or suburbs that surround centres. (no excuses though very poor implementation by previous French governments)


I doubt if being Muslim in Australia, is any walk in the park, or being young and African and especially living in Melbourne.


We can all knit pick, but the French have a reputation of defending their rights. Yes, good to see you pointed out the US for poor social mobility, being the road Australia has been increasingly taken down the past few decades.
I would suggest social mobility, due to outrageous living costs, casual employment and poor tenure protection, on steady decline in Australia's two main cities, at least, as well.
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Old 01-10-2019, 03:04 AM
 
2,393 posts, read 3,058,238 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the troubadour View Post
While Australia is not a model of social mobility if you are indigenous Australian, (equal or worse, although different to many of the French 'ring cities' or suburbs that surround centres. (no excuses though very poor implementation by previous French governments)


I doubt if being Muslim in Australia, is any walk in the park, or being young and African and especially living in Melbourne.


We can all knit pick, but the French have a reputation of defending their rights. Yes, good to see you pointed out the US for poor social mobility, being the road Australia has been increasingly taken down the past few decades.
I would suggest social mobility, due to outrageous living costs, casual employment and poor tenure protection, on steady decline in Australia's two main cities, at least, as well.
*shrug*

I know where I'd want to be to try and get ahead in life.

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Old 01-10-2019, 04:12 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BCC_1 View Post
*shrug*

I know where I'd want to be to try and get ahead in life.


Quite possibly you are at a stage of life where it doesn't really matter anymore. Australia is hardly the country of potential it once was. Few Europeans would have interest to settle here these days.
Figures show outside of low wage Brit's, the European population is in rapid decline.


Quite levels of aged poverty, ever increasing work stress, highest personal indebted nation , outrageous priced housing, could go on, but you get the drift.


Nordics leading the pack as usual I see. Australia, far too depended on things outside of its control.
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Old 01-10-2019, 12:41 PM
 
Location: Top of the South, NZ
16,446 posts, read 12,867,054 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the troubadour View Post
Houses like Australia are inflated due to lax borrowing from financial institutions, foreign investors having easy access, high immigration rates for starters.
NZ houses should be constructed more to suit the climate. It gets cold there. It is not some tropical South Sea Island with swaying palms.
Even UK migrants complain about NZ housing quality. High priced for such poor quality. You could do worse than go and take a look at the quality craftsmanship found in German houses, as an example. Compare their countryside construction with NZ's. You are being fastidious at best, if thinking only expensive window latches.
Folk will not accept a poor quality build. People speak out in Europe more. Obviously nothing is perfect and am fully aware of examples not compliant in this, but the scenario I'm thinking off was disclosed and the city administration was involved.
Houses built between about the early 70s until early 90s (your golden era) are the ones that give significant cold issues, and houses built from then on, are largely free of those issues (leaky house not withstanding)

Cold damp houses are a mixture of old stock from that era, and poor housekeeping skills it's as simple as that. NZ houses don't need a lot of consideration of cold, it's not Tonga (although it does have saying palms), but it's not Germany or England either, other than a few colder areas.

I've worked for plenty of European/English etc, and don't see them as having a special understanding of what quality building means. Also worked with many European/English builders and they seem to view the housing as standard and quality appropriate for the climate.

Perhaps you could explain why new houses lack quality in their construction?... other than window latches etc
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Old 01-10-2019, 05:03 PM
 
2,239 posts, read 3,043,775 times
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Originally Posted by Joe90 View Post
Houses built between about the early 70s until early 90s (your golden era) are the ones that give significant cold issues, and houses built from then on, are largely free of those issues (leaky house not withstanding)

Cold damp houses are a mixture of old stock from that era, and poor housekeeping skills it's as simple as that. NZ houses don't need a lot of consideration of cold, it's not Tonga (although it does have saying palms), but it's not Germany or England either, other than a few colder areas.

I've worked for plenty of European/English etc, and don't see them as having a special understanding of what quality building means. Also worked with many European/English builders and they seem to view the housing as standard and quality appropriate for the climate.

Perhaps you could explain why new houses lack quality in their construction?... other than window latches etc
No idea how to came to your conclusion as know plenty of UK/European folk in both NZ and Australia that complain of poor insulation in both countries. Indeed have lived in a few myself over the years when rented.


I've heard a few folk in the industry complain, but when in Rome, I suppose and ever fewer European trades people can be found these days but I know who I would employ if had the choice. I've also crossed paths with UK tradesmen, that prefer not to work with Aussies. Either can't/won't be told anything or just 'not fun to work with' as one London tradie put it. (no gift of the gab) That's not even saying all of one are bad, or all of another are good. Just the law of averages.


Well houses built until the nineties would remain pretty stable stock in NZ, I'd imagine. Finally to admit to insulation problems. Almost akin to drawing teeth......As for quality ask your compatriots. I've no idea outside of cost and cutting corners why so much isn't well built. But I guess there's your answer. If better is not demanded, it will not be forthcoming.


Better just to have stated that houses built in the era mentioned had insulation issues, at the very least, that dragging this thread out, in a defensive mode, when you knew this poster was right all along.


But I digress. The subject matter is social welfare differences between Australia/New Zealand and the Nordic nations, not building codes and inadequate over priced Aussie/Kiwi housing, which could have been subject in itself to the formation of another thread.
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