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Old 01-10-2019, 05:22 PM
 
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Back to the thread. All things equal, I for one would prefer a care free retirement, with a clear measurement to my monthly guaranteed pension payment, without concern of being means tested, thus encouraging saving and investment, with a top class medical system in place (paid for during employment time) at call on need, in place of a pension in Australia means tested and subsistence in level of payment, not to say a super fund seemingly making a lot of money for the fund, but mixed results, dependant on the share market for most punters.


As others mentioned all to their own. Just know what is really best under the circumstances.
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Old 01-10-2019, 06:05 PM
 
Location: Top of the South, NZ
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Originally Posted by the troubadour View Post
No idea how to came to your conclusion as know plenty of UK/European folk in both NZ and Australia that complain of poor insulation in both countries. Indeed have lived in a few myself over the years when rented.


I've heard a few folk in the industry complain, but when in Rome, I suppose and ever fewer European trades people can be found these days but I know who I would employ if had the choice. I've also crossed paths with UK tradesmen, that prefer not to work with Aussies. Either can't/won't be told anything or just 'not fun to work with' as one London tradie put it. (no gift of the gab) That's not even saying all of one are bad, or all of another are good. Just the law of averages.


Well houses built until the nineties would remain pretty stable stock in NZ, I'd imagine. Finally to admit to insulation problems. Almost akin to drawing teeth......As for quality ask your compatriots. I've no idea outside of cost and cutting corners why so much isn't well built. But I guess there's your answer. If better is not demanded, it will not be forthcoming.


Better just to have stated that houses built in the era mentioned had insulation issues, at the very least, that dragging this thread out, in a defensive mode, when you knew this poster was right all along.


But I digress. The subject matter is social welfare differences between Australia/New Zealand and the Nordic nations, not building codes and inadequate over priced Aussie/Kiwi housing, which could have been subject in itself to the formation of another thread.
You've managed to miss the point - that is the houses of which you claim are poorly insulated and not well built, were typically prior to the era of neo liberalism.

I would say most owner occupied houses before the 90's have typically been renovated to the point that those issues no longer a problem. Rental houses are an issue, so hopefully recently passed legislation will see that situation improve.

I'm not interested in what nationalities fellow tradies are (other than comparative shop talk) -all this Germans good/Aussies bad, is kiddies corner stuff. Professionalism and a commitment to quality are related to temperament/character imo

I'm asking you what the quality issues are ?- I'm well aware of what my countrymen (including Germans) have to say.

Last edited by Joe90; 01-10-2019 at 06:16 PM..
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Old 01-10-2019, 06:27 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the troubadour View Post
Back to the thread. All things equal, I for one would prefer a care free retirement, with a clear measurement to my monthly guaranteed pension payment, without concern of being means tested, thus encouraging saving and investment, with a top class medical system in place (paid for during employment time) at call on need, in place of a pension in Australia means tested and subsistence in level of payment, not to say a super fund seemingly making a lot of money for the fund, but mixed results, dependant on the share market for most punters.
Take your lump sum and buy an annuity. Or just keep a reasonable level of cash.

The pension is means tested because it's a welfare payment, not contributory insurance scheme.
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Old 01-11-2019, 02:08 AM
 
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Originally Posted by BCC_1 View Post
Take your lump sum and buy an annuity. Or just keep a reasonable level of cash.

The pension is means tested because it's a welfare payment, not contributory insurance scheme.

Well yes I do understand that . Do keep a very reasonable level of cash. Need to due to prevailing conditions in this country. Money that of course could have been put to use within the economy, for example, eating out more than once a week, buying that extra over priced $12/13 pint, holidaying more within the state and nation paying those outrageous prices, instead off usually taking it of shore for better value, the list goes on, if age concerns not so paramount, in the event still here at that stage of live.

Last edited by the troubadour; 01-11-2019 at 02:24 AM..
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Old 01-11-2019, 02:12 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Joe90 View Post
You've managed to miss the point - that is the houses of which you claim are poorly insulated and not well built, were typically prior to the era of neo liberalism.

I would say most owner occupied houses before the 90's have typically been renovated to the point that those issues no longer a problem. Rental houses are an issue, so hopefully recently passed legislation will see that situation improve.

I'm not interested in what nationalities fellow tradies are (other than comparative shop talk) -all this Germans good/Aussies bad, is kiddies corner stuff. Professionalism and a commitment to quality are related to temperament/character imo

I'm asking you what the quality issues are ?- I'm well aware of what my countrymen (including Germans) have to say.
You are surely not attempting to argue neo liberalism has somehow had some impact on lifting the state of New Zealand housing quality? I don't see missing any point. I have discussed to some degree the sorry situation around the NZ housing industry. Please start a thread if you wish to devote more time to the matter.


You would be better discussing just why new Zealanders living costs are rising among the fastest. why the standard of living under libertarian policies have declined. Why the pay rate remains so low.
How deregulation has impacted on your economy.


This thread is last time I looked concerning welfare comparisons between the Australasian world of Australia and NZ and those of the far of Nordic world. Oh, by the way, as expected, they turn out a pretty decent house up in those parts as well.
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Old 01-11-2019, 02:28 PM
 
Location: Top of the South, NZ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the troubadour View Post
You are surely not attempting to argue neo liberalism has somehow had some impact on lifting the state of New Zealand housing quality? I don't see missing any point. I have discussed to some degree the sorry situation around the NZ housing industry. Please start a thread if you wish to devote more time to the matter.


You would be better discussing just why new Zealanders living costs are rising among the fastest. why the standard of living under libertarian policies have declined. Why the pay rate remains so low.
How deregulation has impacted on your economy.


This thread is last time I looked concerning welfare comparisons between the Australasian world of Australia and NZ and those of the far of Nordic world. Oh, by the way, as expected, they turn out a pretty decent house up in those parts as well.
Nope, I'm arguing the housing standards aren't anything to do with neo liberalism, rather just improvements over time. You haven't shown that houses have low quality since the era of deregulation -just something about what some German said.

I don't see that the standard of living has declined -it was a lower standard 40 years ago. Pay rates remain low in NZ, because the basis of the economy is agriculture, which has high to/from market costs.
De regulation has improved the economy overall -more diversified, more robust.
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Old 01-11-2019, 05:53 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Joe90 View Post
Nope, I'm arguing the housing standards aren't anything to do with neo liberalism, rather just improvements over time. You haven't shown that houses have low quality since the era of deregulation -just something about what some German said.

I don't see that the standard of living has declined -it was a lower standard 40 years ago. Pay rates remain low in NZ, because the basis of the economy is agriculture, which has high to/from market costs.
De regulation has improved the economy overall -more diversified, more robust.

Some 10% of NZ housing stock I recall reading uninhabitable. Quite a per cent. Not some German bloke met down the pub who was informed of the crisis in NZ housing by some passing Austrian bloke with a funny accent walking his dog, hence may have got it wrong. Not at all. Just countless reports from on the spot Brit's mostly in the case of NZ, pinning for the preferable, better built houses of home. Just living and selling a house built to specification by family members of partner in the building business. Both design and construction.


My experience is not NZ but Australia, where similar applies. Ostentatious housing, to which must exists in Australia does not necessary equate to well built or even all that desirable. Aesthetics often goes out the window with size out of scale and greenery scaled back. Shame how people here increasingly want to 'show off'. Just a shame taste evades their willingness to spend money, all too often.


What has happened since deregulation of course is the drastic increase in poverty among the lower third, with the bottom hit ever harder, due to rising prices and declining support.


A big reason, of course, why a Progressive government under Arden was voted in , with an electorate fed up with neo liberalism, meaning basically higher bills, declining working conditions, ever explosive and unaffordable real estate , not a bad return (sic) for a nation so small that should surely go half way to providing social security levels comparing with a similar economy in Europe like Denmark.


A big vote against the flawed and failed neo liberal policies rewarding only the few anyway.
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Old 01-11-2019, 06:56 PM
 
Location: Top of the South, NZ
16,454 posts, read 12,867,054 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the troubadour View Post
Some 10% of NZ housing stock I recall reading uninhabitable. Quite a per cent. Not some German bloke met down the pub who was informed of the crisis in NZ housing by some passing Austrian bloke with a funny accent walking his dog, hence may have got it wrong. Not at all. Just countless reports from on the spot Brit's mostly in the case of NZ, pinning for the preferable, better built houses of home. Just living and selling a house built to specification by family members of partner in the building business. Both design and construction.


My experience is not NZ but Australia, where similar applies. Ostentatious housing, to which must exists in Australia does not necessary equate to well built or even all that desirable. Aesthetics often goes out the window with size out of scale and greenery scaled back. Shame how people here increasingly want to 'show off'. Just a shame taste evades their willingness to spend money, all too often.


What has happened since deregulation of course is the drastic increase in poverty among the lower third, with the bottom hit ever harder, due to rising prices and declining support.


A big reason, of course, why a Progressive government under Arden was voted in , with an electorate fed up with neo liberalism, meaning basically higher bills, declining working conditions, ever explosive and unaffordable real estate , not a bad return (sic) for a nation so small that should surely go half way to providing social security levels comparing with a similar economy in Europe like Denmark.


A big vote against the flawed and failed neo liberal policies rewarding only the few anyway.
No specifics on what better built means - just a lack of detail or context. Any actual examples of what these "quality issues" in new builds are? Why would they get a house built if they didn't like the design - they can build a Brit house if they like, but I would have to say I've never met a Brit who wanted a house built in the style or specifications of their UK one.... or a German.

Aesthetics is subjective when it comes to housing, and the show off factor doesn't seem to be much of an issue, in my experience.

Deregulation was about stopping government from being a big employer that could out compete private business, in a period after the country saw a large income drop. (relative) poverty was a failure of the pre existing education system to prepare people for a future that wasn't maintained by an unsustainable single market economic situation, and increasing automation of manual labour.

The New Government didn't exactly romp into power, Adern's party and two other quite major parties managed to beat National by about 1% -there is no clear rejection of National's policies -just the usual three term curse. Declining working conditions only affect some - in much of my work, a move towards being a contractor was advantageous, while others I had worked with, didn't seem to be able to make the transition. Overall though, less people were doing more work for more money, and I don't see any issue there.

Last edited by Joe90; 01-11-2019 at 07:06 PM..
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Old 01-11-2019, 08:13 PM
 
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New Zealand's decline started when the UK joined the Common Market and NZ (and Australia) lost most favoured trading status. Until the 1960s (I think) they had guaranteed prices for agricultural exports to the UK. The collapse of the Australian Wool Reserve Price Scheme, which was inevitable, was another leg down in living standards in NZ. New Zealand's high living standards in the 20th century were pretty built on the back of unsustainably protected agricultural products. It's always going to be hard for a small, geographically isolated country with a narrow export base to maintain one of the highest standards of living in the world.
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Old 01-11-2019, 10:09 PM
 
2,241 posts, read 3,043,775 times
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Originally Posted by BCC_1 View Post
New Zealand's decline started when the UK joined the Common Market and NZ (and Australia) lost most favoured trading status. Until the 1960s (I think) they had guaranteed prices for agricultural exports to the UK. The collapse of the Australian Wool Reserve Price Scheme, which was inevitable, was another leg down in living standards in NZ. New Zealand's high living standards in the 20th century were pretty built on the back of unsustainably protected agricultural products. It's always going to be hard for a small, geographically isolated country with a narrow export base to maintain one of the highest standards of living in the world.
Indeed. Cast adrift to own devices while attempting to retain their Britishness.


Not too dissimilar from Cuba, when Soviet demise resulted in loss of sugar subsidies. Apart from the barmy climate, joy of life, music and song, take life as it comes type attitude, attractive population, laid back style/attitude, openness and not forgetting cool ancient American cars.....
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