U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Australia and New Zealand
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 03-17-2019, 08:37 PM
 
2,445 posts, read 897,825 times
Reputation: 1577

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by the troubadour View Post
The answer lays in the question you pose. Just how far would an ideologically driven , believer of white supremacy, hostile in general to migrants (refers to as invaders) believer of Far Right rhetoric, even if only for egomaniac/narcissist reasons , not go claiming collateral in the war they claim to be fighting?


Answer limitless. Remember Oklahoma. Not necessary race or religion, (but in part)but Right Wing extreme ideology that had no reluctance in the slaughter of children, women and men.


Why any would attempt any sort of justification of hatred is beyond me.
Another user did answer this question beforehand. It turns out that I was missing a key ingredient in that story. Anders went after the youth of a political party with favorable views towards Muslims.

I originally thought that he chose that place at random, but it turns out that wasn't the case at all.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 03-17-2019, 10:00 PM
 
Location: New Zealand
129 posts, read 28,387 times
Reputation: 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milky Way Resident View Post
Another user did answer this question beforehand. It turns out that I was missing a key ingredient in that story. Anders went after the youth of a political party with favorable views towards Muslims.

I originally thought that he chose that place at random, but it turns out that wasn't the case at all.
All they need is the thinnest of threads to justify their targets because ultimately it's about themselves.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-18-2019, 01:30 AM
 
Location: New Zealand
129 posts, read 28,387 times
Reputation: 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milky Way Resident View Post
Thatís a noble sentiment, but one that I donít think is very helpful, sadly. If Muslims were specifically targeted then the attack is directed at them.

I believe that the distinction is important as it highlights the groups at risk. Of course, as a nation it is imperative to treat them all equally and recognize those as attacks against citizens.
Quote:
Originally Posted by the troubadour View Post
While it is indeed a sorry day for New Zealanders, it is especially so for the Islamic community, obviously in NZ, but around the world generally. It should be remembered, they as a group were specially singled out for execution on grounds of their region alone.
All I read is 'Standing together with NZ', which is a fine sentiment, in itself, but doesn't express that it was not random New Zealanders targeted by a group within NZ society. If we are at all serious about displaying disgust at what happened and send a clear message it should reaffirm Muslims are a part of society as with all other groups and show disgust by directly speaking out against Islamic hate and definitely not isolating that community.
Jacinda Arden, the NZ Prime Minister, made a good speech yesterday, I thought. Lets show some remorse for the group that was targeted.
I've been thinking about this a lot lately, wondering about the sentiments expressed above by you both.
I've also been looking at our City, our culture and wondering if I've just been blind to a whole lot of stuff. There's an insulating company here in Christchurch that's been identified as Neo-Nazi.
christchurch-shootings-anger-at-insulation-company-with-white-supremacy-branding

They've been around for a few years and no one has ever done anything about them even though their signage includes references to Fourteen_Words and has nazi insignia. I remember a few years back there being some issues with skin head boys targeting asians. So I know we aren't a perfect society and admit our country has racial issues.

I guess I'm struggling with how best to do right by our Muslim community. I've always tried to be inclusive by focusing on the fact that we are all humans regardless of ethnicity, religion, sexual orientation, gender etc. So how do we then build an inclusive society if we're always making a point of us/them, as in referencing differences. For example, saying 'this happened to the Muslim community, not to New Zealand' feels horrible, like they aren't really a part of our community.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-18-2019, 01:58 AM
 
2,796 posts, read 3,216,607 times
Reputation: 1557
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogue.red View Post
All they need is the thinnest of threads to justify their targets because ultimately it's about themselves.
It is exactly this.....
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-18-2019, 02:07 AM
 
2,796 posts, read 3,216,607 times
Reputation: 1557
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogue.red View Post
I've been thinking about this a lot lately, wondering about the sentiments expressed above by you both.
I've also been looking at our City, our culture and wondering if I've just been blind to a whole lot of stuff. There's an insulating company here in Christchurch that's been identified as Neo-Nazi.
christchurch-shootings-anger-at-insulation-company-with-white-supremacy-branding

They've been around for a few years and no one has ever done anything about them even though their signage includes references to Fourteen_Words and has nazi insignia. I remember a few years back there being some issues with skin head boys targeting asians. So I know we aren't a perfect society and admit our country has racial issues.

I guess I'm struggling with how best to do right by our Muslim community. I've always tried to be inclusive by focusing on the fact that we are all humans regardless of ethnicity, religion, sexual orientation, gender etc. So how do we then build an inclusive society if we're always making a point of us/them, as in referencing differences. For example, saying 'this happened to the Muslim community, not to New Zealand' feels horrible, like they aren't really a part of our community.

I'm afraid neo nazi sentiment has been around in Christchurch for some reason, dating back to at least the eighties. Those days it was UK imitation style skinheads. (as you mention, by long before period you mention)
I'm afraid no simple solution, beyond tackling the forces of hatred head on. Perhaps the next major battle will not be The West against China or Russia or indeed the Muslim World, but good against evil?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-18-2019, 02:16 AM
 
2,796 posts, read 3,216,607 times
Reputation: 1557
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe90 View Post
I don't want to make friends, with Muslims, or Christians, if they endorse a book that openly vilifies and threatens with the most disgusting punishment imaginable, those who don't believe as they do. This "us and them" poison that religion spews, is no different to the hatred that the shooter displayed.... just more "respectable"

So you go and break bread with them, I would rather associate with those who have genuine respect for humanity.
Not much us and them, apart from in your head. Change your information source, ditch your right wing reading material and join the human race.


Shame for you that you feel it probably unwise to go the whole hog, writing what you really think. While I've little to no hope of changing your blighted outlook on humanity, I may just get through to others of reflective mode, still attempting to arrive at a view point on the topic under discussion, helping to navigate them away from Islamophobia and seeing those preaching hate for what they are. Dumb and ignorant.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-18-2019, 05:01 AM
 
Location: New Zealand
129 posts, read 28,387 times
Reputation: 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by the troubadour View Post
I'm afraid neo nazi sentiment has been around in Christchurch for some reason, dating back to at least the eighties. Those days it was UK imitation style skinheads. (as you mention, by long before period you mention)
I'm afraid no simple solution, beyond tackling the forces of hatred head on. Perhaps the next major battle will not be The West against China or Russia or indeed the Muslim World, but good against evil?
I don't believe in good/evil as separate entities or that there is some ultimate battle for one over the other. People do evil things, they do things devoid of humanity.

Speaking of evil acts... a lad went to court today charged with spreading racist material with the intent to incite violence. It seems people new the shooting was going to happen. The lad posted a pic to social media of Dean's Ave mosque with the words "Target acquired" on March 8th.

I've spent the last few hours searching media archives for clarity on the state of our racism. The comment section makes for dark reading and highlights the degree of racial angst. Funny thing is, I remember getting my nose outa joint as a teenager because I wanted to enter a journalism writing contest but it was open to Maori only. I didn't know at the time that I was Ngai Tahu. It's hard when you're white to appreciate systemic racism, much like it's hard for guys to fully appreciate gender bias I think.

The irony of racism in a world where NOTHING is black or white...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-18-2019, 10:56 AM
 
677 posts, read 235,140 times
Reputation: 1258
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mons Meg View Post
Mass slaughter by white nationalists
Tragic
Ohhh I see now. When a criminal is white and does something like this, it's always pointed out they are white. But, when brown skinned killer does the same thing..........it's always "they are mentally deranged'
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-18-2019, 10:57 AM
 
Location: Top of the South, NZ
16,799 posts, read 13,339,596 times
Reputation: 5404
Quote:
Originally Posted by the troubadour View Post
Not much us and them, apart from in your head. Change your information source, ditch your right wing reading material and join the human race.


Shame for you that you feel it probably unwise to go the whole hog, writing what you really think. While I've little to no hope of changing your blighted outlook on humanity, I may just get through to others of reflective mode, still attempting to arrive at a view point on the topic under discussion, helping to navigate them away from Islamophobia and seeing those preaching hate for what they are. Dumb and ignorant.
Say what you want, but it's what's written in the book. It's hatred, pure and simple.

You can talk all you want about right wing reading material and Islamophobia, but you're just making excuses for those who condone endless torture towards those who believe differently.

You don't know what I think -I view people as people first, and regard religions who condemn non believers to some sort of endless punishment, as enemies of decency. While I view the massacre as shocking, I'm not extending any sort of olive branch, to a religion.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-18-2019, 11:18 AM
 
Location: San Jose
1,873 posts, read 576,122 times
Reputation: 2096
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe90 View Post
Say what you want, but it's what's written in the book. It's hatred, pure and simple.

You can talk all you want about right wing reading material and Islamophobia, but you're just making excuses for those who condone endless torture towards those who believe differently.

You don't know what I think -I view people as people first, and regard religions who condemn non believers to some sort of endless punishment, as enemies of decency. While I view the massacre as shocking, I'm not extending any sort of olive branch, to a religion.
The problem with your assertion is that there are sects of Muslims who are very peaceful and basically pacifists. Like the Ibadi and the Sufis. Why should they suffer the scorn?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Australia and New Zealand
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. | Please obey Forum Rules | Terms of Use and Privacy Policy

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top