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Old 03-18-2019, 11:40 AM
 
Location: Top of the South, NZ
17,049 posts, read 13,609,812 times
Reputation: 5482

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Quote:
Originally Posted by KenFresno View Post
The problem with your assertion is that there are sects of Muslims who are very peaceful and basically pacifists. Like the Ibadi and the Sufis. Why should they suffer the scorn?
If they don't promote that non believers should justifiably burn for eternity, for nonbelief, then I don't really have an issue with them

My argument is that the hatred expressed by some religions, towards nonbelievers, is one of the cornerstones of intolerance and bigotry -it's so obvious and normalised, that it almost becomes invisible.

While I get that the massacre targeted Muslims, my sympathy only extends to the individuals as people, not as Muslims.
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Old 03-18-2019, 11:54 AM
 
Location: San Jose
2,049 posts, read 625,327 times
Reputation: 2204
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe90 View Post
If they don't promote that non believers should justifiably burn for eternity, for nonbelief, then I don't really have an issue with them

My argument is that the hatred expressed by some religions, towards nonbelievers, is one of the cornerstones of intolerance and bigotry -it's so obvious and normalised, that it almost becomes invisible.

While I get that the massacre targeted Muslims, my sympathy only extends to the individuals as people, not as Muslims.
Again various sects of Muslims have had nothing to do with terrorism. Why would you include them in your scorn when they haven't done anything to deserve it? When you say "Muslims" its understood to mean "all Muslims" the entire global community. Including giant sections of their community who have had nothing to do with terrorism.

This would be like blaming all Christians for the acts of Pedophilia within the Catholic church. Its absolute non-sense.
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Old 03-18-2019, 12:05 PM
 
Location: Top of the South, NZ
17,049 posts, read 13,609,812 times
Reputation: 5482
Quote:
Originally Posted by KenFresno View Post
Again various sects of Muslims have had nothing to do with terrorism. Why would you include them in your scorn when they haven't done anything to deserve it? When you say "Muslims" its understood to mean "all Muslims" the entire global community. Including giant sections of their community who have had nothing to do with terrorism.

This would be like blaming all Christians for the acts of Pedophilia within the Catholic church. Its absolute non-sense.
You've managed to miss my point - the Koran is a book that states non believers should suffer torture for their non belief -if you endorse a book, you endorse what it says.

Nothing to do with terrorism.

If the bible endorsed pedophilia, then I would view all who endorsed the bible, as endorsing pedophilia- does that make my point clearer?
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Old 03-18-2019, 12:46 PM
 
Location: San Jose
2,049 posts, read 625,327 times
Reputation: 2204
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe90 View Post
You've managed to miss my point - the Koran is a book that states non believers should suffer torture for their non belief -if you endorse a book, you endorse what it says.

Nothing to do with terrorism.

If the bible endorsed pedophilia, then I would view all who endorsed the bible, as endorsing pedophilia- does that make my point clearer?
Who cares what the book says, its what they do that fundamentally matters. Here in the US we put the phrase "all men are created equal" into our Declaration of Independence then proceeded to keep black people as slaves for the next 90 years. Those words were meaningless until we started acting upon them. Sorry but it seems like you are looking for excuses to hate all of them.
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Old 03-18-2019, 12:55 PM
 
Location: Top of the South, NZ
17,049 posts, read 13,609,812 times
Reputation: 5482
Quote:
Originally Posted by KenFresno View Post
Who cares what the book says, its what they do that fundamentally matters. Here in the US we put the phrase "all men are created equal" into our Declaration of Independence then proceeded to keep black people as slaves for the next 90 years. Those words were meaningless until we started acting upon them. Sorry but it seems like you are looking for excuses to hate all of them.
You're quick to play the blame game, even though I stated I don't hate anybody, Yet you turn a blind eye to a belief system, that openly states it's hatred and intolerance to those who dare to be different.

I just don't believe anyone should burn, because they don't believe as I do. It's not a big deal to you, and that's your decision, but I think that normalising the hatred and intolerance displayed by religion towards those who believe differently, is very much part of the bigger picture.

Hitler's Mein Kampf, was also just words. If words were meaningless, defamation and censorship, wouldn't exist.
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Old 03-18-2019, 05:44 PM
 
3,011 posts, read 3,309,338 times
Reputation: 1684
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe90 View Post
If they don't promote that non believers should justifiably burn for eternity, for nonbelief, then I don't really have an issue with them

My argument is that the hatred expressed by some religions, towards nonbelievers, is one of the cornerstones of intolerance and bigotry -it's so obvious and normalised, that it almost becomes invisible.

While I get that the massacre targeted Muslims, my sympathy only extends to the individuals as people, not as Muslims.
No Muslims I have ever met, and met a lot, have ever suggested as much to me. Why do you insist to quote the extreme terminology of Radical Islam.
There is little hatred within the average Muslim, but certainly generosity in giving as instructed by the Koran.


The bigotry is on your side and should never be accepted as normalised thinking. Already far too much bigotry on display against Muslims as it is and such ignorant claims as yours just fan the bigotry and hatred.


At least arrive at some depth of knowledge before constantly advocating a group to personally hate.
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Old 03-18-2019, 06:03 PM
 
3,011 posts, read 3,309,338 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe90 View Post
You're quick to play the blame game, even though I stated I don't hate anybody, Yet you turn a blind eye to a belief system, that openly states it's hatred and intolerance to those who dare to be different.

I just don't believe anyone should burn, because they don't believe as I do. It's not a big deal to you, and that's your decision, but I think that normalising the hatred and intolerance displayed by religion towards those who believe differently, is very much part of the bigger picture.

Hitler's Mein Kampf, was also just words. If words were meaningless, defamation and censorship, wouldn't exist.
You most certainly do and shouldn't be left to go unchallenged. You quote the forces of hatred at every instance. You are of the inability to explain why Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world. So one third of humanity is inflicted by intolerance and hatred?


Yet the forces that constantly attack those of faith, a rare commodity these days at best, in a commoditised world , encourage the violence and daily verbal assaults encountered by too many.


If you despise religion, that is entirely your prerogative. Just try not to jump on the band wagon of Islamic hatred. AS for a belief system, well your written antics on here are plenty evidence of the 'system' you adhere to. That being one of little tolerance, not just for Muslims, but one for the vulnerable, those made homeless by financial institutions, and so on. Few, if any Muslims would ever voice such non compassion. Clearly stated in the Koran, of course, giving alms to the poor.
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Old 03-18-2019, 06:04 PM
 
Location: Top of the South, NZ
17,049 posts, read 13,609,812 times
Reputation: 5482
Quote:
Originally Posted by the troubadour View Post
No Muslims I have ever met, and met a lot, have ever suggested as much to me. Why do you insist to quote the extreme terminology of Radical Islam.
There is little hatred within the average Muslim, but certainly generosity in giving as instructed by the Koran.


The bigotry is on your side and should never be accepted as normalised thinking. Already far too much bigotry on display against Muslims as it is and such ignorant claims as yours just fan the bigotry and hatred.


At least arrive at some depth of knowledge before constantly advocating a group to personally hate.
It's not radical, it's just the Koran. If you revere a book, you endorse it's message.

You can turn a blind eye to hate and intolerance, or you can call it what it is.

I do seek to inform myself of religions, and I don't hate religion. I do agree with the notion, that religion allows good people to do bad things.
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Old 03-18-2019, 06:14 PM
 
3,011 posts, read 3,309,338 times
Reputation: 1684
Quote:
Originally Posted by KenFresno View Post
Who cares what the book says, its what they do that fundamentally matters. Here in the US we put the phrase "all men are created equal" into our Declaration of Independence then proceeded to keep black people as slaves for the next 90 years. Those words were meaningless until we started acting upon them. Sorry but it seems like you are looking for excuses to hate all of them.
Your right in saying looking for reasons to hate. I've already suggested as much. Sadly there are all too many bigots out there, who will readily crawl out of the wood work, to expose hatred and intolerance at a given opportunity. In recent times the 'flavour' to hate is Muslims. It's on most part just a 'convenience of the moment' to sell hatred, but their agenda is far wider, far more exclusive. Sadly to be an Islamic bigot, has become acceptable within the heads of too many ill informed. When you dehumanise a minority, of course, unfortunate repercussions (to put it mildly) are bound to be outcomes.
My advise is take a stand against racist and religious bullying. Any bullying in fact. Counter any hatred with reality, don't give the haters any wriggle space.
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Old 03-18-2019, 06:17 PM
 
Location: Top of the South, NZ
17,049 posts, read 13,609,812 times
Reputation: 5482
Quote:
Originally Posted by the troubadour View Post
You most certainly do and shouldn't be left to go unchallenged. You quote the forces of hatred at every instance. You are of the inability to explain why Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world. So one third of humanity is inflicted by intolerance and hatred?


Yet the forces that constantly attack those of faith, a rare commodity these days at best, in a commoditised world , encourage the violence and daily verbal assaults encountered by too many.


If you despise religion, that is entirely your prerogative. Just try not to jump on the band wagon of Islamic hatred. AS for a belief system, well your written antics on here are plenty evidence of the 'system' you adhere to. That being one of little tolerance, not just for Muslims, but one for the vulnerable, those made homeless by financial institutions, and so on. Few, if any Muslims would ever voice such non compassion. Clearly stated in the Koran, of course, giving alms to the poor.
What's the big mystery about the growth of Islam? - higher levels of population growth, combined with an environment in many countries, which isn't exactly conductive to openly leaving the faith. Even if it does appeal to people on a spiritual level, this doesn't change the hate and intolerance of the Koran towards non believers. Numbers don't = god/bad

I not on a bandwagon of Islamic hatred, but neither do I accept the one big happy family narrative -family don't revere books advocating my torture, over different beliefs.

How can you determine what I believe, based on what I've written? -self reliance and sound decision making are all that I've advocated for, with out any specific examples of what that means.
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