Australians (and others) - how do you feel about Aborigines? (renting, schools)

[bebeklonia]

I used to live in Melbourne where there are very few Aborigines. Well, the stereotypes are that they're lazy and drunk. I do not personally know any of them but I think it's the condition that pressurize them to be that way.

[ino]

The way I see it is that they are not from a culture of working for a living, (only us stupid whities could come up with that ridiculous concept), they have been nomads for centuries, and it will require considerable time for them to get used to the idea of working for reward and to assimilate successfully into the current, or any future society as they must make some rather large cultural changes within themselves, it's called 'evolution'.

As for the alcohol thing, well I suspect any culture who has never dealt with an alcoholic substance would find it difficult to come to terms with in the short term, remember, us whities have had alcohol available for centuries so most of us have adapted to it's use and effect through generations and so it will be for the native also I believe.

I also think that if less time was spent by governments and 'do gooders' pussyfooting around and stated some *real* facts then the gap would narrow a lot faster between the two cultures, but it would still take generations before we could all live in relative harmony,[my opinion]. Those people only exaserpate the problems. If more time was spent looking *at* each other instead of some natives looking *down* on us whities as if we owe them something then things would improve a whole lot faster and easier, this is called 'progress', and nobody can stop that, so it's a case of 'shape up, ship out, or look out'. I'd prefer us all to 'shape up' and get on with life as a nation of multicultural people. We owe them, or anyone else *nothing*, other than to live and work with each other in this, and future societies.

[tropical87]

Originally Posted by ino

NVplumber,

You have the answer....quote: "The Mongols solved that problem by leaving nothing alive", (how smart were they in hindsight?), this is the only answer to prevent any problems arising, unfortunately this isn't acceptable behaviour in todays civilized world so your second quote: "assimilation of those displaced cultures has become the issue", should be addressed, they should just get over it and start assimilating, by their own volition. Their culture is recognised and for the most part respected just don't try to enforce it in todays society as it simply will not work, I said before we cannot return to a Neanderthal lifestyle, maybe sometime in the future this will occur but not in my lifetime at least. Your third quote: "We have changed and evolved", is what is relevant today, 'evolved' being the operative word, and civilization will continue to 'evolve' until such time we destroy ourselves, or the planet, whichever comes first.

What is this quote supposed to mean?

Actually, no one is denying aborigines their culture. Many grants (money and land) have been and are being given so they can do that. But they just dont seem to practice the culture much, but rather rob/steal/drink/destroy everything even themselves.

[Vichel]

Originally Posted by tropical87

What is this quote supposed to mean?

But they just dont seem to practice the culture much, ...

Maybe they do, and it's just incompatible, hence the conflict.

Our society is a modern economy, open and transaction-based, emphasis on education and democracy.

Theirs is a closed, heavily kinship-obligated world, emphasis on gerontocracy (rule of old men who are clearly abusing that rule).

I'm cynical about this issue and see absolutely not even one pinpoint of light at the end of the tunnel. Meaningless feel-good words will do nothing as long as contemporary Aborigines are encouraged to view themselves forever as victims and continue to embrace the cargo-cult mentality.

Jews, Armenians, American-Japanese, Chinese-Malays: all ethnic groups who've been discriminated against in the recent past yet are very successful today. Not because they were given masses of money, or any freebies or special rights. But because their cultures encouraged education, hard work and commercial success and interaction with the rest of the world. Poor school attendance, sit-down money and closed, insular clannishness is the exact opposite, with the exact opposite results, as we see today.

[NVplumber]

The one inescapable law of nature is adapt or die. It has been this way since time began and applies to all species equally. Even humans. Taken as a whole, "aboriginal" or "native" cultures ,such as the one being discussed here, have had a hard time with adapting to the changes brought by more technologicaly advanced cultures. Now, even if there were no barriers in the way, from the start, for these indigineous peoples to transition into "modern" societies the same issues that plauge them now would still be there. An unwillingness to adapt and change their way of thinking is the issue at this point in history. There is NO reason , now, that an "aboriginal" person cannot rise to prominence should they so choose. The same rules apply across the board for "native" societies everywhere. I , personally, know many American Indians that have done quite well in mainstream society. Sitting Bull, an Oglala holy man of the 19th century was one of the most forward thinking men of his tribe at the time and he actually stated that his people must adapt to the "white mans world" or perish. They do not have to forget who they are or where they come from but they do need to THINK differently. The old days are gone, and lamenting that fact changes nothing.

[AussieDi]

What really gets to me is people give there opinion on the situation and have never set foot in Australia!
Come over here to perth, and see what Aborigines are really like! you cant even look at them without getting threatened, i have been to the USA a number of times and not once did i see a native american! so i still cant pass judgement on what they are like as people and how society is treating them.

Yes i know what happened in the past was not right at all! but we need to stop living back then and get on and start making things right, and it needs to be on both parts not just the Government side.
the Aborigines can never make up there mind with what they want, they say they want to be treated equally, i think that has been done, now its there turn to treat US with respect too.
They need to do something for themselves too, the government can only help so much, they have said there sorry's, they give the aborinal people free education, money, they have there own police, they get away with everything including murder! what more do they want?

so yeah, people need to come here and see for themselves before making judgment!

[dave nz]

My experiences with them have been mostly bad/negative. But that doesn't mean I cast an aspersion on the whole race.

[Chris1955]

This is an interesting read for a half Algonquin (Six Nations) from the United States.

First, as has been noted, there is no coherent type of 'Indian' here. People who think there is one tribe or nation of stereotyped Native Americans here in the Americas, utterly don't have a clue. That is like classifying all Europeans into one stereotype. There is a major set of differences between a Brit, a Greek, a Italian, and a Finn. You may as well say you visited a Basque 'reservation' and thus know what there is to know about the EU.

Nor do many people realize large parts of the population here are part Native American. Nancy Reagan was one of Pocahontas's descendants, and Colin Powell is part Arawak. You don't think of people like Johnny Depp, Val Kilmar, Wayne Newton, Elvis Presley, Cher, or Shania Twain as having anything to do with Native Americans do you?

But the more a native people comes from a hunter-gatherer society, the harder a time they have dealing with the modern world.

Nobody considers that the residents of central Mexico were once Aztecs and had a civilization, or much of Central America was once Mayan.

People like the Salish adopted much differently then the Cheyenne did. Navajo are different from Apache.

Some tribes and nations, like the Navajo, do not want any great assimilation and desire to keep on as they were. Others are far more adventerous.

And some of my ancestors Great Law of Peace was in large part used/made/converted into the United States Constitution. As OZ developes you will find certain local things the original inhabitants had will creep in and become a part of who you are. It appears in the case of New Zealand this is occurring.

I suspect OZ will need to learn more then to name the population of your various native peoples as 'Aborigines' and then fit them into nice little molds, they hope to deal with.

[nzrugby]

A cop in Queensland can kick a Abo to death and be found not guilty by a all white jury.
And the Queensland locals took pride in the fact that a Abo was dead and one of their own got away with it.

Just think the deep south in the sixties and you have parts of Australia to a T.

[Trimac20]

^ Only a minority are like that, nzrugby, but I do admit there is an under-current of racism within the mainstream; brought about my frustration (some of it understandable) that the aborigines don't seem to change or be able to, shame and ignorance. Neither black nor white should give excuses for their behaviour, imo.